Jobs is out

[Hoss]

iTunes has always worked really well for me. But there's also Winamp if you don't want to use iTunes. iPhones are completely customizable if you Jailbreak it. It's very easy to do.

The majority of people I know with Android phones do have problems, especially with music oddly.

Problem with Android is there are so many different version of the OS out there and carriers aren't necessarily timely with the updates.  GB (Gingerbread, or 2.3.4) solves a lot of that mess.  My music app works just fine.  Doesn't mean others do as well.

At least when the Android updates the OS, I don't have to go searching my HD for the last backup because iTunes borked it again.

[sgrizzle]

Apple devices are going OTA (over the air) updates this year. As well as full device backups to the internet with web-based interface for restoring and accessing all of the device data.

[Conan71]

Problem with Android is there are so many different version of the OS out there and carriers aren't necessarily timely with the updates.  GB (Gingerbread, or 2.3.4) solves a lot of that mess.  My music app works just fine.  Doesn't mean others do as well.

At least when the Android updates the OS, I don't have to go searching my HD for the last backup because iTunes borked it again.

...and how many OS's are there for iPhone?  Hmmmm?

I was pretty angry too when OS 4 bricked my phone, but they made the necessary changes within weeks.

[Hoss]

Apple devices are going OTA (over the air) updates this year. As well as full device backups to the internet with web-based interface for restoring and accessing all of the device data.

That's a big plus for Apple then, and something they should have been doing earlier than this.  Google backs up Android via the Cloud, and the OTA updates work very well.  The last one I did at the end of July took about 10 minutes to download, and another 15 to install.  Pretty painless actually.

[Hoss]

...and how many OS's are there for iPhone?  Hmmmm?

I was pretty angry too when OS 4 bricked my phone, but they made the necessary changes within weeks.

Oh, there are several versions of iOS, the same as there are several versions of Android.  I always hated updating iOS after the first two botched updates.  Android, not so much.

We'll make a techie out of you yet!

[dbacks fan]

snap!

[jne]

On that note, I recently got my wife a tablet - considered ipad2, went with asus transformer ( sort of netbook hybridwith added keyboard option) and couldn't be happier

[custosnox]

If I was going to spend money on a pad, at this time I would personally go with the I-pad, since there are still a lot of problems with the android pad. 

One of the things I was referring to with the one size fits all mentality is how they lock up their product so you are limited on what you can do with it, unless you "jailbreak" it.  It's kind of a "have it this way or no way" kind of thing.  Their lack of inspiration in their other products lends itself to it as well.  I'm glad to hear they have broadened their horizon with the notebooks.  Still afraid to look at the price on them though. 

I'm not saying that they are on their way out, but with android slipping ahead of them in the market (despite the whole profit spin thing, android still outsells them right now) it shows that people are hungry for more than what Apple is putting out there.  The other shoe I was talking about may well be this whole new product that they are supposed to be introducing soon, and that shoe dropping can be good.  Right now the company is could go either way, and Jobs leaving could have no effect on this what-so-ever.  Even if they go with a completely new direction, as far as we know, it could have been set in motion before he made this decision.  Of course, he could be the key component of the entire thing and it could fall apart when he leaves.  I doubt that, but you never know how it's going to go.  However, if the company makes too many mistakes and it topples from it's place, I don't see it making a return without another Steve Jobs leading the way. 

[Conan71]

If I was going to spend money on a pad, at this time I would personally go with the I-pad, since there are still a lot of problems with the android pad. 

One of the things I was referring to with the one size fits all mentality is how they lock up their product so you are limited on what you can do with it, unless you "jailbreak" it.  It's kind of a "have it this way or no way" kind of thing.  Their lack of inspiration in their other products lends itself to it as well.  I'm glad to hear they have broadened their horizon with the notebooks.  Still afraid to look at the price on them though. 

I'm not saying that they are on their way out, but with android slipping ahead of them in the market (despite the whole profit spin thing, android still outsells them right now) it shows that people are hungry for more than what Apple is putting out there.  The other shoe I was talking about may well be this whole new product that they are supposed to be introducing soon, and that shoe dropping can be good.  Right now the company is could go either way, and Jobs leaving could have no effect on this what-so-ever.  Even if they go with a completely new direction, as far as we know, it could have been set in motion before he made this decision.  Of course, he could be the key component of the entire thing and it could fall apart when he leaves.  I doubt that, but you never know how it's going to go.  However, if the company makes too many mistakes and it topples from it's place, I don't see it making a return without another Steve Jobs leading the way. 

Any market advantage Android has is due to a broader scope of competition amongst multiple vendors and service providers within the platform, JMO. 

Apple is still the leading manufacturer in smart phones.

iPhone's numbers (pardon the pun) have been impressive considering they were only available with one phone company for the first two or three years, now there are two, and sounds like three with the roll out of iP5.

The appeal of Android is broader as it's available on any network, competition amongst handset manufacturers keeps prices lower, and many people resent limited networks and the whole application/jailbreak issue.

Apple's current model competes with their older models on their in-house operating platform.

[custosnox]

Any market advantage Android has is due to a broader scope of competition amongst multiple vendors and service providers within the platform, JMO. 

Apple is still the leading manufacturer in smart phones.

iPhone's numbers (pardon the pun) have been impressive considering they were only available with one phone company for the first two or three years, now there are two, and sounds like three with the roll out of iP5.

The appeal of Android is broader as it's available on any network, competition amongst handset manufacturers keeps prices lower, and many people resent limited networks and the whole application/jailbreak issue.

Apple's current model competes with their older models on their in-house operating platform.

It's the fact that Android is across several phones that makes the number skew so much.  The iPhone will have a jump in sales, and may reclaim the position of highest, once it crosses that network threshold, but I still think it will have to fight for it.  Android is a contender, and if Apple doesn't start widening their scope they are going to be having a problem.  Coming out with an updated version of what everyone has already is going to start getting old.  And the need to jailbreak it in order to really open up its potential is really going to hamper it as time goes by.  Add on top of it the fact that the company is really getting petty when it comes to trying to eliminate competition (insert things like photoshopping "evidence" in infringement suits), it's image is becoming tarnished.

[sgrizzle]

Oh, there are several versions of iOS, the same as there are several versions of Android.  I always hated updating iOS after the first two botched updates.  Android, not so much.

We'll make a techie out of you yet!

iOS4 (latest version) was 90% adoption rate at the time of this graph. Less than 1% were on the latest version of Android, which was a month old.

[Conan71]

It's the fact that Android is across several phones that makes the number skew so much.  The iPhone will have a jump in sales, and may reclaim the position of highest, once it crosses that network threshold, but I still think it will have to fight for it.  Android is a contender, and if Apple doesn't start widening their scope they are going to be having a problem.  Coming out with an updated version of what everyone has already is going to start getting old.  And the need to jailbreak it in order to really open up its potential is really going to hamper it as time goes by.  Add on top of it the fact that the company is really getting petty when it comes to trying to eliminate competition (insert things like photoshopping "evidence" in infringement suits), it's image is becoming tarnished.

FAIK, It's actually pretty small percentage of people who cared about jail-breaking it in the first place.  I would suspect most of those people simply went to Android when it came out and the vast majority of current iP owners are just like me: the apps available are more than what I need/use and jail-breaking means nothing to me because the primary uses of my phone are: phone, text, camera, information- web browsing, map/GPS, stock ticker, email, and an occasional round of paper toss.

Apple isn't doing anything a lot of other companies do to protect their trademark.  Want to see a real trademark nazi?  Harley-Davidson.

[Hoss]

iOS4 (latest version) was 90% adoption rate at the time of this graph. Less than 1% were on the latest version of Android, which was a month old.

Android updates aren't dependent upon Google as the OS, they depend on the hardware vendor and the carrier involved.  Those updates aren't deployed until sufficient testing is done by the vendor and the carrier, which is due to different hardware platforms.  Not difficult to get those numbers from Apple when Apple is the only hardware vendor.  Those numbers are like comparing apples to oranges.

You guys can put all the pie charts and graphs and figures out there, I will NEVER own another Apple product as long as it's tied to iTunes.  I realize you're probably not trying to sway me, but I know MANY fanboys who try to do so.  And I have no need for a MacBook either.

And iOS4 was the version that botched the install.  Twice.

[swake]

Don't forget that a big part of why Android sells more is that Google gives it away for free. They still haven't figured out how to make any money. Profit isn't spin, it's the whole reason for the business, and right now Google isn't make any from Android.

The hardware manufacturer being the gatekeeper to software platform updates is a huge issue. There is a disincentive for Samsung, HTC etc to provide updates on existing phones because:
1) It makes them no money, they already have the money. It can only cost them money to work on updates on equipment they have already sold
2) If they can make you buy a new phone to get the update they DO make money

It's also better for the service provider for you to get a new phone and sign a new 2 year contract.

This is all part of why everyone thinks Google bought Moto, in order be in control of hardware and updates they way Apple is and to see if they can generate profits like Apple does from it.  It remains to be seen if Google can do hardware or if Google can make money on Android, if not they will likely throw in the towel.

I'm not going to say too much, but I strongly suspect that the Google purchase of Moto Mobility may well have actually have been much more about the B2B cable side of the business and television than protecting Android. Google may or may not be in with Android for the long haul.

Let's see if Microsoft doesn't buy Nokia soon. That's where I see the real competition to Apple probably coming from.

[Hoss]

Don't forget that a big part of why Android sells more is that Google gives it away for free. They still haven't figured out how to make any money. Profit isn't spin, it's the whole reason for the business, and right now Google isn't make any from Android.

The hardware manufacturer being the gatekeeper to software platform updates is a huge issue. There is a disincentive for Samsung, HTC etc to provide updates on existing phones because:
1) It makes them no money, they already have the money. It can only cost them money to work on updates on equipment they have already sold
2) If they can make you buy a new phone to get the update they DO make money

It's also better for the service provider for you to get a new phone and sign a new 2 year contract.

This is all part of why everyone thinks Google bought Moto, in order be in control of hardware and updates they way Apple is and to see if they can generate profits like Apple does from it.  It remains to be seen if Google can do hardware or if Google can make money on Android, if not they will likely throw in the towel.

I'm not going to say too much, but I strongly suspect that the Google purchase of Moto Mobility may well have actually have been much more about the B2B cable side of the business and television than protecting Android. Google may or may not be in with Android for the long haul.

Let's see if Microsoft doesn't buy Nokia soon. That's where I see the real competition to Apple probably coming from.

The reason Google bought Moto is to ease themselves of patent infringement suits which Apple has been on the warpath about.  Mainly that, anyway.