Biden in Tulsa Today

[nathanm]

Something had to be done about the Taliban and intel that OBL was hiding in the mountains there.  If Bush hadn't gone in, we may well have faced more terrorist attacks around the world.  I suspect anyone who was president at the time would have wound up in Afghanistan as the American people were expecting some sort of response and retaliation.  And you are correct, we learned nothing from the Soviet's involvement there.

OBL is dead now, so what exactly is it we are doing there at this point?  No amount of time spent there is going to produce a more stable government.

Something only had to be done about the Taliban if you accept the premise that it is we who are responsible for ensuring human rights around the world. If so, we have a lot more work to do and will be expending much more blood and treasure on the project. I'm not entirely opposed to that view, but I don't think that's really how we want to operate.

Despite invading Afghanistan, there were many terrorist attacks around the world. London, Madrid, Bali, Mumbai, and the list goes on. I can't even attribute OBL's assassination to the invasion of Afghanistan. At least we got the Taliban. Sort of..not really. We would have been better off not sending a full scale invasion force, but that's hindsight talking.

[Conan71]

Something only had to be done about the Taliban if you accept the premise that it is we who are responsible for ensuring human rights around the world. If so, we have a lot more work to do and will be expending much more blood and treasure on the project. I'm not entirely opposed to that view, but I don't think that's really how we want to operate.

Despite invading Afghanistan, there were many terrorist attacks around the world. London, Madrid, Bali, Mumbai, and the list goes on. I can't even attribute OBL's assassination to the invasion of Afghanistan. At least we got the Taliban. Sort of..not really. We would have been better off not sending a full scale invasion force, but that's hindsight talking.

I can't really be critical of the military's approach while knowing not even 1/3 of what they know in the way of intelligence and the worth of continuing the mission.  It's obvious though, approaching ten year's involvement there that most Americans have had enough of it.  Enough bloodshed and enough money being poured down a rat hole.  As long as we are not seeing large-scale terrorist attacks, it's got the image of working, but again, we never really know what has been prevented when attacks don't happen.  We only know when they do.

Is the fact that we've not seen another attack on near the scale of 9/11 since that day coincidental, or is it a direct result of our intervention in Afghanistan or Iraq?  No one can say for certain either way.  I'm quite convinced of that.

[Hoss]

I can't really be critical of the military's approach while knowing not even 1/3 of what they know in the way of intelligence and the worth of continuing the mission.  It's obvious though, approaching ten year's involvement there that most Americans have had enough of it.  Enough bloodshed and enough money being poured down a rat hole.  As long as we are not seeing large-scale terrorist attacks, it's got the image of working, but again, we never really know what has been prevented when attacks don't happen.  We only know when they do.

Is the fact that we've not seen another attack on near the scale of 9/11 since that day coincidental, or is it a direct result of our intervention in Afghanistan or Iraq?  No one can say for certain either way.  I'm quite convinced of that.

I'm pretty sure it has nothing or very little to do with Iraq.  All the reports I continue to see still say there was no link between Hussein and al Qaeda.  Was Hussein a madman?  You bet.  Did we drop the ball on Afghanistan while toppling regimes in Iraq?  Yep.  I was not for the invasion of Iraq after I saw the non-evidence of WMD and only tepidly for it in the beginning.  I really didn't have any opinion of the Bush administration before that and about 6 months after 9/11.  Bush's whole 'we don't know where OBL is and we don't care' (paraphrasing, of course) really ticked me off.  I'm sure there were about 2800 families who did care.  That started my dislike for his administration.  Then he and FEMA botched Katrina.

[Townsend]

I'm pretty sure it has nothing or very little to do with Iraq.  All the reports I continue to see still say there was no link between Hussein and al Qaeda.  Was Hussein a madman?  You bet.  Did we drop the ball on Afghanistan while toppling regimes in Iraq?  Yep.  I was not for the invasion of Iraq after I saw the non-evidence of WMD and only tepidly for it in the beginning.  I really didn't have any opinion of the Bush administration before that and about 6 months after 9/11.  Bush's whole 'we don't know where OBL is and we don't care' (paraphrasing, of course) really ticked me off.  I'm sure there were about 2800 families who did care.  That started my dislike for his administration.  Then he and FEMA botched Katrina.

And?  And?

He eats baby.



BABY!

oh, and he got in slap fights with Senate Pages...

[Hoss]

And?  And?

He eats baby.



BABY!

oh, and he got in slap fights with Senate Pages...

Don't go misunderestimating me, Townie!

[nathanm]

Is the fact that we've not seen another attack on near the scale of 9/11 since that day coincidental, or is it a direct result of our intervention in Afghanistan or Iraq?  No one can say for certain either way.  I'm quite convinced of that.

We did see other attacks of that scale. They failed to produce as many bodies, but that's only because they got "lucky" (spit) on 9/11. I doubt even they expected the towers to actually collapse. Regardless, they set off three bombs in Istanbul in 2003, ten bombs in Madrid in 2004, and four bombs in London in 2005.

Maybe there would have been more had we not invaded Afghanistan, as you rightly point out, nobody can know for sure..unless they're clairvoyant.

[dbacks fan]

We did see other attacks of that scale. They failed to produce as many bodies, but that's only because they got "lucky" (spit) on 9/11. I doubt even they expected the towers to actually collapse. Regardless, they set off three bombs in Istanbul in 2003, ten bombs in Madrid in 2004, and four bombs in London in 2005.

Maybe there would have been more had we not invaded Afghanistan, as you rightly point out, nobody can know for sure..unless they're clairvoyant.

You asked......

[Gaspar]

As you follow the money, it is now apparent that Solyndra was just the shell of the egg.  Much of the money they received was used for capital improvements and leases.  They purchased millions of dollars in leases that they never used from Chicago billionaire and Obama bundler Neil Bluhm (Walton Street Capital).  The largest payment went to Stonebridge Capital Group's Terry Fancher who donated over $70,000 to the DNC last year before receiving a $42 Million dollar lease agreement from Solyndra in December, before being considered for the lease, his largest political donation was only $6,900 in 2008.

[Conan71]

As you follow the money, it is now apparent that Solyndra was just the shell of the egg.  Much of the money they received was used for capital improvements and leases.  They purchased millions of dollars in leases that they never used from Chicago billionaire and Obama bundler Neil Bluhm (Walton Street Capital).  The largest payment went to Stonebridge Capital Group's Terry Fancher who donated over $70,000 to the DNC last year before receiving a $42 Million dollar lease agreement from Solyndra in December, before being considered for the lease, his largest political donation was only $6,900 in 2008.

Sounds like we might be close to starting an independent counsel investigation.  This could be Obama's Iran-Contra or Whitewater-spermgate.

[Gaspar]

Sounds like we might be close to starting an independent counsel investigation.  This could be Obama's Iran-Contra or Whitewater-spermgate.

I just wish President Obama was as good at creating jobs as President Clinton was at getting them! 

[nathanm]

I've been thinking we needed another Arkansas Project... 

[we vs us]

As you follow the money, it is now apparent that Solyndra was just the shell of the egg.  Much of the money they received was used for capital improvements and leases.  They purchased millions of dollars in leases that they never used from Chicago billionaire and Obama bundler Neil Bluhm (Walton Street Capital).  The largest payment went to Stonebridge Capital Group's Terry Fancher who donated over $70,000 to the DNC last year before receiving a $42 Million dollar lease agreement from Solyndra in December, before being considered for the lease, his largest political donation was only $6,900 in 2008.

http://www.theregistrysf.com/RTRE_solyndra.html

Landlords left hanging by Solyndra's bankruptcy petition may have to wait months and possibly years before they fully understand the fallout from the filing. Or they may know much of their fate in the next 30 days.

Solyndra leases four Fremont properties and one in Milpitas from some of the region's and nation's most high-profile landlords. According to its bankruptcy petition and documents filed with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission as part of its failed attempt to go public early last year, its landlords include iStar Financial Inc., Digital Realty Investment Trust and Stockbridge Capital Group. It owns a sixth building itself, 47488 Kato Terrace, also in Fremont.

With the bankruptcy, Solyndra has asked the court to allow it to reject a single lease outright, that for 400-472 Kato Terrace in Fremont. The landlord is Walton Street Capital LLC, according to court records. Solyndra, which has already vacated, also seeks to abandon its personal property at the Kato Terrace address.

[Gaspar]

http://www.theregistrysf.com/RTRE_solyndra.html

Poor Terry gets left hanging.  Sent a check for $70,800 to the DNC when he purchased the building for $42.2 million, and now his lease gets canceled, and he's out $42,200,000 plus $70,800.  At least he has his health.

[Gaspar]

Well, Solyndra is old news now.  LightSquared is the new pay-for-play.

[Teatownclown]

America needs a President....

The Phony Solyndra Solar Scandal

http://dirtyhippies.org/2011/09/14/the-phony-solyndra-solar-scandal/

"But if we're going to have a clean energy industry in this country, this kind of thing is going to happen. It doesn't mean anyone cheated."

"The other option was restructuring. Kaiser's Argonaut Ventures and the Walton family's Madrone Partners would put up an additional $75 million, which would take the first position in case of a liquidation; the government would still be paid first if the company managed to emerge from bankruptcy. Meanwhile, the Department of Energy ... ultimately concluded it did have a potentially viable business. The new factory was on time and on budget. Sales were increasing steadily. And even if Solyndra failed, it would be much more valuable with a completed high-tech plant than with an empty box in Fremont, California."

""George Kaiser is not an investor in Solyndra and did not participate in any discussions with the U.S. government regarding the loan," the statement said. "GKFF invests in a globally diversified portfolio across many different asset classes."


"The conservative Wal-Mart Walton Family, however, were private investors through their Madrone Capital, and at the time that the Bush administration started pushing the Solyndra loan were in a position to peronally profit from this investment. If any accusation of an expectation of personal enrichment obtained from political connections should be investigated, it is this one. Will the Republican House look into the connections between the Walton family and Bush administration officials, and the Bush administrations efforts to provide loans to Solyndra?"

"The Government Didn't Lose

Even though Solyndra went into bankruptcy the government didn't "lose." The purpose of the government's involvement was to help trigger the development of green-energy manufacturing in the United States, not to help individual companies. This was not a direct investment in a company with the expectation of a profit for the government. In the bigger picture of promoting American leadership in the emerging green-energy industry the government's loan guarantee was a success. Even though Solyndra's investors lost out our country retains the trained skilled employees, the intellectual property, the innovators funded, the suppliers, and the factory. As components of a national effort to trigger a key strategic industry, those are all still there and in the US.

It isn't the government's job to make sure the investors make money, the government's job is to work to keep all of these components of an industry here and to grow new ones here, and this is what has been accomplished. When a VC makes an investment, a company failing just goes on the books as a loss. But our government has succeeded even if Solyndra's investors lost money because the country as a whole benefits. All these employees are trained, all the researchers can take what they know to other solar companies, the IP is going to be sold — and it should be part of the conditions that it be sold to an American company. So while Solyndra's for-profit investors lost money, America's larger effort to nurture a solar-power industry continues toward its goal with assets enabled by this loan guarantee."

The loan program started under President Bush.

READUPANDSHUDUP