Governor Fallin bridge and turnpike plan

[Transport_Oklahoma]

Kudos to Governor Fallin for her bridge initiative. Oklahomans need to have confidence our roads are safe to drive on.  Investing in our infrastructure is a sign of optimsim for the future instead of doom and gloom decline.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20111004_11_A1_CUTLIN100776

As new regional transit and intercity rail projects are debated and planned, it is important to keep in mind that this road funding plan appears to rely primarily on general taxpayer revenues.

[dbacks fan]

General taxpayer revenue? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the OTA & ODOT are seperate entities, one does not support the other.

[dbacks fan]

Also, intercity rail has been discussed (to death) for years, what general taxpayer revenue is going to pay for that?

[zstyles]

I just drove from Oklahoma to Tennessee last weekend, the only turnpikes that I had to drive on were in Oklahoma...no where else did I pay a dime and its funny because the roads were actually in better shape in other states that were free...

[Transport_Oklahoma]

General taxpayer revenue? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the OTA & ODOT are seperate entities, one does not support the other.

Where did you see that they were?  The ODOT and county-maintained roads will be benefitting from more general revenue.

I am assuming the Turnpike Authority is able to finance the Creek Turnpike widening with funds from a bond sale.  And I am guessing this is possible because earlier bonds have been paid off with toll revenue. 

Turnpikes are the only example of self-financing roads in Oklahoma.  If left to the private sector, the toll road system would be much smaller then it is today.  For many years only the Turner and Will Rogers carried enough traffic to support operations and maintenance while repaying the bondholders.  And ODOT has spent tens of millions building and maintaining the connections to the turnpikes.

[Transport_Oklahoma]

I just drove from Oklahoma to Tennessee last weekend, the only turnpikes that I had to drive on were in Oklahoma...no where else did I pay a dime and its funny because the roads were actually in better shape in other states that were free...

Did you top off before you left?  In Oklahoma the fuel you buy is taxed at some of the lowest rates in the free world!  The state tax was last raised in 1986.  There hasn't even been an adjustment for inflation.

Hey.  I think we should CONSIDER eliminating all income taxes and special forms of taxation like the fuel tax and instead tax all consumption at a flat rate.  Low income households would get a rebate.  All transportation programs would be funded from general revenue with decision and policy-making split 1/3 national, 1/3 state, and 1/3 City/MPO.   

[zstyles]

Actually the gas prices were the same until you got to Tn, across Arkansas..I guess I can relate the two. 2.50 on the turnpike for a 20 mile journey or a 10 cent discount on gas..ya makes complete sense...

[heironymouspasparagus]

Did you top off before you left?  In Oklahoma the fuel you buy is taxed at some of the lowest rates in the free world!  The state tax was last raised in 1986.  There hasn't even been an adjustment for inflation.

And our roads show it.  And have suffered from it.  Horribly.

Looks like our fuel taxes are fourth from the bottom, as are our roads!

Turnpike authority is a catastrophic mess.  Busy building new ways to pay off political patronage while leaving the Turner Turnpike to rust in place.  Overpass at mile N3300 Rd, just south of E0930 Rd - couple miles west of Wellston is classic example.  It looks like an example of a rusted out shell of a bridge that would expect to see in a northern, salt dissolved state.  Looking at it from the bottom is scary!

[dbacks fan]

Kudos to Governor Fallin for her bridge initiative. Oklahomans need to have confidence our roads are safe to drive on.  Investing in our infrastructure is a sign of optimsim for the future instead of doom and gloom decline.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20111004_11_A1_CUTLIN100776

As new regional transit and intercity rail projects are debated and planned, it is important to keep in mind that this road funding plan appears to rely primarily on general taxpayer revenues.

You mean this one?


http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=13184.msg126811#msg126811

[swake]

Here's the plan. There's a lot of work in the Tulsa area planned. I've detailed the highlights. The year I've indicated is the year the project is funded which is in most cases, as I understand it, the year work would begin, not finish.


http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/cwp-8-year-plan/cwp_ffy2012-ffy2019/pdfs/cwp_ffy2012-2019_division8_tulsa_metro.pdf

https://www.pikepass.com/pdf/Project%20Status%20Report_20110815.pdf

I-44 and Lewis 2012

Creek Turnpike widening to 6 lanes from US169 to US75 - 2012

I-244 over Arkansas River – Eastbound 2013

I-44 in far east Tulsa/Catoosa (2013 – 2016):
177th E Ave 2013
163rd E Ave 2014
145th E Ave 2016

BA Expressway going into downtown from Lewis rebuild 2014-2015

I-244 east from downtown pavement rehabilitation 2015-2017

US169 and BA Interchange 2016

I-444 (other half of IDL) 2018-19:
I-444 pavement rehabilitation 2018
Bridges over I-444 2019

I-44 and US169 Interchange 2019

I-44 and BA Interchange 2019 (right of way and utilities only)

[Townsend]

Per TW:

Bridge study ranks Tulsa, OKC metro areas worst in nation

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20111019_11_0_Antoat937566&rss_lnk=439

A national study released Wednesday names the Tulsa metro area the worst in the nation for percent of structurally deficient bridges compared to similarly sized metro areas.

The only sizeable metro area that has a higher percentage of bad bridges is Pittsburgh at 30.4 percent.

Tulsa is at 27.5 percent -- the highest among metro areas between 500,000 to 1 million population, according to the study produced by Transportation for America.

Oklahoma City also ranked as the worst for structurally deficient bridges in its category of metro areas from 1 million to 2 million people.

A spokesperson with Transportation for America said the Tulsa metro area includes bridges in Creek, Okmulgee, Osage, Pawnee, Rogers, Tulsa and Wagoner counties.

Though the state is known to routinely rank very high in the nation for bad bridges, local transportation officials said the numbers may be skewed because they include a large number of rural areas in the study's definition of the Tulsa metro.

James Wagner, transportation projects coordinator for the Indian Nations Council of Government, said the study's area for Tulsa County goes far beyond INCOG's area for planning Tulsa metro roads.

"This would go all the way to the Kansas border," Wagner said. "There's a lot of different measures when you're looking at metro areas. This goes beyond INCOG's boundary."

The bridges in the study's area would include several different jurisdictions including two divisions of the Oklahoma Department of Transportation, INCOG and each county.

"This is a big, big area," Wagner said. "It gets into areas people would not think of as Tulsa."

Earlier this month, Gov. Mary Fallin announced a plan to eliminate all structurally deficient highway bridges in the state by 2019.

The plan would also provide for more repairs and replacements to city, county and turnpike bridges, which make up a significant portion of the Transportation for America study.

Tom Rains, county engineer for Tulsa County, said the new plan will help funding which has been the major concern for maintaining bridges.

"With the limited funding we have, we do the best we can to keep them maintained as best we can," Rains said.

Tulsa County replaces about one to two bridges a year based on federal and state funding that fluctuates around about $450,000 every year, he said.

A 40-foot-span bridge replaced recently cost about $400,000 from their total funding, Rains said.

Bridge replacement funds often get drained if unforeseen damages occur to a county bridge in the case of a washout, for instance, he said.

"There's a lot of rural counties that get even less," Rains said. "They are in a worse way. We get by, but I don't know how they do it."


By JARREL WADE World Staff Writer

[jacobi]

I've heard it said that one of the problems that we have here that contributes to the massive problems we have with road decay is the massive swings in temperature that we have here.  We had an almost 150 difference between coldest and warmest temperatures this year.  Does anyone know if there is evidence enough to lend credence to this?  If so, it sounds like we have an oportunity to do serious civil engineering research and come up with a solution. 

[Townsend]

I've heard it said that one of the problems that we have here that contributes to the massive problems we have with road decay is the massive swings in temperature that we have here.  We had an almost 150 difference between coldest and warmest temperatures this year.  Does anyone know if there is evidence enough to lend credence to this?  If so, it sounds like we have an oportunity to do serious civil engineering research and come up with a solution. 

BTW:

113: Highest temperature for Tulsa on Aug. 3.

-31: Coldest temperature, Feb. 10 in Nowata

[DTowner]

BTW:

113: Highest temperature for Tulsa on Aug. 3.

-31: Coldest temperature, Feb. 10 in Nowata

That hurts just thinking about it.

[heironymouspasparagus]

I am assuming the Turnpike Authority is able to finance the Creek Turnpike widening with funds from a bond sale.  And I am guessing this is possible because earlier bonds have been paid off with toll revenue.  

Turnpikes are the only example of self-financing roads in Oklahoma.  If left to the private sector, the toll road system would be much smaller then it is today.  For many years only the Turner and Will Rogers carried enough traffic to support operations and maintenance while repaying the bondholders.  And ODOT has spent tens of millions building and maintaining the connections to the turnpikes.

Interesting how you use the words "paid off" and "repaying".  Neither of which is something that happens.  Occasionally new bonds are issued to pay off old ones, though.

If one were to look at the annual report for the turnpike authority, one would find that there is a billion and a half in principal and interest in outstanding debt as off 2010 report.  

At the exact same time, the turnpike authority has "investment" assets totally nearly $200 million dollars just sitting around in case they find another worthwhile way to get some more political patronage going.  Rather than using that to pay off a pretty good chunk of the debt...

The promise - and it was a lie, just like so many politician promises - was that the turnpikes would be paid off, bonds retired, and the roads become free in a reasonable amount of time.  That was about 55 years ago.  Instead, we have the everlasting gobstopper of ongoing never ending maintenance on the Turner and the Will Rogers and the Creek and probably the Kirkpatrick and most likely others.

But the sheeple of Oklahoma buy into the insanity that we will just let "other people" pay for our roads.  Well, when do they get paid for??

Has anyone guessed that turnpikes are a pet peeve??