Solyndra

[guido911]

What, compensation owed employees shouldn't be first priority in a bankruptcy?

What are you talking about. I said the GOVERNMENT was giving private company Solyndra former employees $13K in benefits. Here's an article:

The Labor Department today announced that it had approved Trade Adjustment Assistance for the former employees of the bankrupt solar panel maker Solyndra.

That means all of the firm's 1,100 ex-employees are eligible for federal aid packages, including job retraining and income assistance. The department has valued packages at about $13,000 a head.

Taxpayers will have to cough up yet another $14.3 million as a result of Solyndra's bankruptcy. They are already on the hook for $528 million in federal loan guarantees to the company that are unlikely to ever be paid back.

Read more: http://nation.foxnews.com/solyndra/2011/11/21/obamas-labor-department-approves-deal-giving-ex-solyndra-staff-13000-each-federal-aid#ixzz1eYgilEcc

[Emphasis added]. I didn't realize that TAA was now considered federally owed compensation. Thanks Clavin.

[guido911]

Depends.  I haven't read the article nor do I know specifics.  Is this severance or back-pay.  If it's back-pay, then sure they are owed it.  If it's severance, that's a slippery slope right there.

It's neither. It's fed money used for essentially a reemployment program. My beef is that the tax payers (you and I) are already stuck with $1/2B in bad loans, some of that wound up in the pockets of these employees as salary, now the taxpayers (you and I) are getting nailed again for more that $14M.

We can discuss the merits of TAA and whether it's a good program. But in this case, in my opinion, stop the damned bleeding already government.

[heironymouspasparagus]

It's neither. It's fed money used for essentially a reemployment program. My beef is that the tax payers (you and I) are already stuck with $1/2B in bad loans, some of that wound up in the pockets of these employees as salary, now the taxpayers (you and I) are getting nailed again for more that $14M.

We can discuss the merits of TAA and whether it's a good program. But in this case, in my opinion, stop the damned bleeding already government.

It seems thou dost protest too much... the amount of time, energy, and rant given over to this $500 million is amazing compared to the dearth of same for the $1.2 trillion for the bank/insurance bailout, or the $2 trillion or so of the Iraq war, or the ongoing - for 30 years - of deficit spending for "Star Wars" and tax breaks for the richest.  Oh, wait...I completely get the last one - tax breaks.

But now, for the last couple years, these piddly little amounts are creating apoplectic Pavlovian responses?

We the taxpayers are already stuck with trillions in misguided war costs, and now we get to keep paying for more of it!

Why not stop the bleeding - both literal and figurative - in Iraq and Afghanistan...NOW!!!??  Save hundreds of billions before worrying about hundreds of millions!

[guido911]

It seems thou dost protest too much... the amount of time, energy, and rant given over to this $500 million is amazing compared to the dearth of same for the $1.2 trillion for the bank/insurance bailout, or the $2 trillion or so of the Iraq war, or the ongoing - for 30 years - of deficit spending for "Star Wars" and tax breaks for the richest.  Oh, wait...I completely get the last one - tax breaks.

But now, for the last couple years, these piddly little amounts are creating apoplectic Pavlovian responses?

We the taxpayers are already stuck with trillions in misguided war costs, and now we get to keep paying for more of it!

Why not stop the bleeding - both literal and figurative - in Iraq and Afghanistan...NOW!!!??  Save hundreds of billions before worrying about hundreds of millions!

Come on, stop with the straw men. You think wasting money is okay since money was "wasted" on things you don't approve of? And also, back pedal much off after that 1% crap? 

[heironymouspasparagus]

Come on, stop with the straw men. You think wasting money is okay since money was "wasted" on things you don't approve of? And also, back pedal much off after that 1% crap?  

Straw men such as the trillion dollars?  Versus the half billion...  

You think it was a waste to put half a billion into Solyndra (I happen to agree it was a waste, but for a different reason I have explained previously) -- but since you approve of killing 4,000 of our kids and pounding a trillion+ down a sand hole, it was NOT a waste...

[Conan71]

Straw men such as the trillion dollars?  Versus the half billion...  

You think it was a waste to put half a billion into Solyndra (I happen to agree it was a waste, but for a different reason I have explained previously) -- but since you approve of killing 4,000 of our kids and pounding a trillion+ down a sand hole, it was NOT a waste...

I don't agree entirely with our military involvement abroad. However, consider that those 4000 soldiers went willingly, without conscription, and fully understood the risk and ultimate sacrifice which could be asked of them.  For some reason those 4000 and hundreds of thousands of other soldiers who have served in that theater have deemed it a worthy cause.

[Hoss]

I don't agree entirely with our military involvement abroad. However, consider that those 4000 soldiers went willingly, without conscription, and fully understood the risk and ultimate sacrifice which could be asked of them.  For some reason those 4000 and hundreds of thousands of other soldiers who have served in that theater have deemed it a worthy cause.

I know from talking to a lot of them (within family/extended family I know) they equated that worthy cause to be Iraq = Al Qaeda.  That turns out to apparently not be the case.  I know some of them also questioned why we remained so long.  I also know that alot of them signed up for two and three years in the military, and didn't have a lot of say on whether or not they'd be redeployed.

I'm not saying I don't appreciate their sacrifice; I do indeed.  But even some of them question it.

[heironymouspasparagus]

I don't agree entirely with our military involvement abroad. However, consider that those 4000 soldiers went willingly, without conscription, and fully understood the risk and ultimate sacrifice which could be asked of them.  For some reason those 4000 and hundreds of thousands of other soldiers who have served in that theater have deemed it a worthy cause.

This is turning into as big a divisive issue as any other we have.  Very sad.

[Gaspar]

OUCH!

CBS Last week.  11 More Solyndras in the Obama Energy scheme. 

[Conan71]

Again Gaspar, it's only a few billion, it's not like that adds up to trillions in debt eventually.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Again Gaspar, it's only a few billion, it's not like that adds up to trillions in debt eventually.

You're right...that only happens when you are giving it to car companies.  Oh, yeah...and insurance companies.  Oh yeah, and no-bid contracts to Halliburton ($75 billion or so.).

But yeah...$3 billion... WHEW!!!  What a monstrous financial event for the country!  Oh, wait - what is the corn subsidy for ethanol every year?

[nathanm]

Heh, First Solar would be flying high if it weren't for illegal dumping by the Chinese. They've got a problem only the government can solve.

Also, that copy Charlie Rose was reading sounded like it came straight from the Republican staffer who is so blind to reality that he doesn't know that First Solar's problems begin and end with illegal Chinese dumping.

[Conan71]

Heh, First Solar would be flying high if it weren't for illegal dumping by the Chinese. They've got a problem only the government can solve.

Also, that copy Charlie Rose was reading sounded like it came straight from the Republican staffer who is so blind to reality that he doesn't know that First Solar's problems begin and end with illegal Chinese dumping.

I suspect the problems go further than the dumping issue or is it only companies with union problems which have incompetent management?  

I do agree at the very least, the government could have protected our investment in these solar companies by discouraging "dumping" by Chinese competition with tariffs.  That still doesn't absolve poor loan decision making on the part of the DOE or the Administration in granting loans to companies which are essentially junk bond-rated.  That's the ludicrous part of the story Gaspar posted:  Secretary Chu said these are the future of energy technology.  Enough is known at this point how competitive and how relevant what types of energy are practical or necessary at this point in time.  IMO, Solar seems to be a pretty poor return on investment and only good for micro generation to help get homes or commercial structures entirely or partially off the grid.  Hydro-electric and wind, however, seem to be pretty solid, reliable and efficient technology with minimal foreign competition.  

There's a drawback to every method of generating electricity, we simply need to figure out what we are willing to tolerate without regressing to the stone ages and weigh it's overall value.

I believe there's pretty solid evidence that free trade agreements have been a bust for the American manufacturing worker and the government continues to do very little to protect durable or capital goods jobs which can easily be exported.

[heironymouspasparagus]

I suspect the problems go further than the dumping issue or is it only companies with union problems which have incompetent management?  

I believe there's pretty solid evidence that free trade agreements have been a bust for the American manufacturing worker and the government continues to do very little to protect durable or capital goods jobs which can easily be exported.

There are many companies with incompetent management who have no union whatsoever - some even right here in Oklahoma.  And the converse is also very true - there are many very well managed companies who have a significant union contingent - I just happen to work for one now.  

Free trade is bad for workers?  Hmm...what a populist idea!  You turning into a Realist on us here??

[Gaspar]

I wonder if Kaiser knows about this?

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2012/01/19/bankrupt-solyndra-caught-destroying-brand-new-parts/