Should pseudoephedrine be by prescription only in Oklahoma?

[nathanm]

Its been awhile since I checked. Just how effective are the methadone programs?

Effective at what? There are all kinds of measures of effectiveness, from crime prevention to full on recovery and all points in between.

If you think keeping addicts from stealing to support their habit is a success, even if not the entirety of what we'd like, you'll look to different metrics than someone who thinks that anything short of getting them off drugs entirely is an abject failure. Personally, I think the small steps are worthwhile in their own right, and it's OK with me if not everyone makes it all the way to full recovery even if that is what I'd most like to see.

[AquaMan]

Effective at what? There are all kinds of measures of effectiveness, from crime prevention to full on recovery and all points in between.

If you think keeping addicts from stealing to support their habit is a success, even if not the entirety of what we'd like, you'll look to different metrics than someone who thinks that anything short of getting them off drugs entirely is an abject failure. Personally, I think the small steps are worthwhile in their own right, and it's OK with me if not everyone makes it all the way to full recovery even if that is what I'd most like to see.

You're wasting a shotgun shell to kill a fly and he's still only getting powder burns.

Any effort to summarize what I think is a waste of your obvious intellect. I simply am inquiring as to the general effectiveness of methadone programs (based on what their missions were) and whether they might be useful in constructing a similar program for meth abusers.

I open to the idea I just don't think your logic works. Small steps are great but alcoholics and other addicts don't live like those with nicotine habits. I can pick up a cigar occasionally with a shot of whiskey and do just fine. When an alcoholic or a coke head takes a drink and a snort he may be out for weeks. Meth heads lose all sense of propriety just from that one step.

Whatever. As long as you get your sudafed hit and your freedoms are not impinged at all.....

[nathanm]

I open to the idea I just don't think your logic works. Small steps are great but alcoholics and other addicts don't live like those with nicotine habits. I can pick up a cigar occasionally with a shot of whiskey and do just fine. When an alcoholic or a coke head takes a drink and a snort he may be out for weeks. Meth heads lose all sense of propriety just from that one step.

That's where the treatment and counseling come in. First you get them to the point where they aren't staying up for two weeks straight. Then, after several intermediate steps, you get them to the point where they can hold a job as long as they get their twice daily fix. Only then, once they have something to care about in their life, are they going to realize that getting off the stuff completely is the way to go. The end goal is always complete abstinence from the problem substance, but it's perfectly OK if people don't make it there immediately. Buying meth by the truckload from a pharmaceutical company is far cheaper than imprisoning meth users and far better for the Mexicans than forcing addicts to buy from the cartels.

Better someone have a lost decade than a lost half century or worse after being through the grist mill that is prison.

http://www.ucsf.edu/news/2000/03/5047/methadone-maintenance-found-be-more-effective-treating-heroin-addicti

[Conan71]

That's where the treatment and counseling come in. First you get them to the point where they aren't staying up for two weeks straight. Then, after several intermediate steps, you get them to the point where they can hold a job as long as they get their twice daily fix. Only then, once they have something to care about in their life, are they going to realize that getting off the stuff completely is the way to go. The end goal is always complete abstinence from the problem substance, but it's perfectly OK if people don't make it there immediately. Buying meth by the truckload from a pharmaceutical company is far cheaper than imprisoning meth users and far better for the Mexicans than forcing addicts to buy from the cartels.

Better someone have a lost decade than a lost half century or worse after being through the grist mill that is prison.

http://www.ucsf.edu/news/2000/03/5047/methadone-maintenance-found-be-more-effective-treating-heroin-addicti

How many meth addicts have you ever known personally?

[nathanm]

How many meth addicts have you ever known personally?

More than I care to admit on a public forum.

[Conan71]

More than I care to admit on a public forum.

So you are aware personally then, what an insidious drug this is and how hard it is to get a tweaker off meth and into a productive life. 

My personal knowledge of it is it's a difficult recovery and the relapse rate is relatively high.

Though not impossible, meth addiction is a difficult disorder to treat, according to Anglin. "There's not severe physical withdrawal with methamphetamine, but rather a feeling of anhedonia, an inability to experience pleasure, that can last for months and which leads to a lot of relapse at six months," he said. The anhedonia appears to correspond with the period when the brain is recovering and producing abnormally low levels of dopamine.
"When you think of treatment of drugs like methamphetamine, you have to think of it like fixing a broken leg — treatment provides a structure to allow their brain chemistry to return to normal. Their brain is out of tune, it's not working very well, and it takes a while to recover," Rawson said.
Unlike heroin addicts, who can be weaned off the substance with methadone, there are no pharmacological treatments for meth. The only currently available treatment is behavioral therapy.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3076519/ns/us_news-only_on_msnbc_com/t/beating-addiction-meth/#.TyMb-WCUfr8

[Townsend]

http://www.newson6.com/story/16952673/anti-meth-bill-killed-by-oklahoma-senate-panel?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Anti-Meth Bill Killed By Oklahoma State Senate Panel

OKLAHOMA CITY - Over-the-counter sales of cold medicines that contain a key ingredient used to make meth will continue after Oklahoma lawmakers killed a bill to require a prescription to buy them.

A state Senate committee late Wednesday narrowly voted down the bill by Wagoner Republican Senator Kim David that would have required a prescription to purchase any medicines containing pseudoephedrine.

Prosecutors and police say Senate Bill 1276 is necessary to curb a growing meth problem, but drug companies and their lobbyists have been working to kill the measure and keep pills like Claritin-D and Advil Cold and Sinus on store shelves.

Opponents of the bill also have been taking to the airwaves with ads against the measure, and this week organizations representing physicians, pharmacists and grocers announced their opposition.

[Conan71]

I heard the ad on the radio and it pissed me off.  "Think about lost productivity from people having to leave their jobs to go to the doctor to get a prescription."

That's a weak argument.  In terms of meth, think of the costs of productivity, the costs to the families of the addicts, and the overall costs to society  including theft and destruction of personal property, as well as the cost to imprison all these tweakers.

Any maintenance prescriptions I've ever used, I've managed to get a 12 month prescription from my doctor with 30 day renewals without calling in.  That's perfectly legal and practical.

[Townsend]

I heard the ad on the radio and it pissed me off.  "Think about lost productivity from people having to leave their jobs to go to the doctor to get a prescription."

That's a weak argument.  In terms of meth, think of the costs of productivity, the costs to the families of the addicts, and the overall costs to society  including theft and destruction of personal property, as well as the cost to imprison all these tweakers.

Any maintenance prescriptions I've ever used, I've managed to get a 12 month prescription from my doctor with 30 day renewals without calling in.  That's perfectly legal and practical.

Think of all the sales to meth makers lost. 

Think of all the money lost by the drug producers. 

For God's sake, think of the lobbyist's children.  Do you want them to have to drive a domestic?

[Conan71]

Do you want them to have to drive a domestic?

I was doing just fine until you got to that final point.  Certainly can't have their kids drinking or driving domestics.  How selfish of me.

[DolfanBob]

Here is a shopping list I need from Atwoods.
1. Two packs of four lithium batteries.
2. A four pack of Heet gas treatment.
3. A good strong drain cleaner.
4. One pair of rubber gloves.
5. One pack of filter paper masks.
6. A couple of two litre pepsi's

Oh and here is a paper tag for the bumper and can you stop at Walgreens and pick me up a couple packs of Sudafed ? Thanks hon. See ya in a bit.

[Conan71]

Here is a shopping list I need from Atwoods.
1. Two packs of four lithium batteries.
2. A four pack of Heet gas treatment.
3. A good strong drain cleaner.
4. One pair of rubber gloves.
5. One pack of filter paper masks.
6. A couple of two litre pepsi's

Oh and here is a paper tag for the bumper and can you stop at Walgreens and pick me up a couple packs of Sudafed ? Thanks hon. See ya in a bit.

And people ingest that smile and somehow manage to survive?

[DolfanBob]

Just my little parody of how insane it is.

[patric]

OKLAHOMA CITY - Three major state medical groups have come out against a proposed restriction on the sale of the allergy medicine that is a key ingredient in most Oklahoma methamphetamine labs.


The Oklahoma State Medical Association, the Oklahoma Osteopathic Association and the Oklahoma Academy of Family Physicians all have taken stances against proposals to make pseudoephedrine a prescription-only drug.

Advocates for the idea argue that it will reduce the number of meth labs in the state, but the physician groups say it will fill physicians' offices with people who don't need to see doctors and it will keep others from using a drug that the federal government has determined is effective and safe for over-the-counter sales.

"We agree that methamphetamines are a huge problem for the state, we just think this is the wrong way to go about fixing it," said Dr. Russell Kohl, legislative co-chairman for the Oklahoma Academy of Family Physicians.

"We don't think that the reason for the methamphetamine problem is the availability of pseudoephedrine," Kohl said. "There's just not good evidence that this is effective and it's going to be a huge inconvenience to the law-abiding citizens who are using it correctly."

[Hoss]

OKLAHOMA CITY - Three major state medical groups have come out against a proposed restriction on the sale of the allergy medicine that is a key ingredient in most Oklahoma methamphetamine labs.


The Oklahoma State Medical Association, the Oklahoma Osteopathic Association and the Oklahoma Academy of Family Physicians all have taken stances against proposals to make pseudoephedrine a prescription-only drug.

Advocates for the idea argue that it will reduce the number of meth labs in the state, but the physician groups say it will fill physicians' offices with people who don't need to see doctors and it will keep others from using a drug that the federal government has determined is effective and safe for over-the-counter sales.

"We agree that methamphetamines are a huge problem for the state, we just think this is the wrong way to go about fixing it," said Dr. Russell Kohl, legislative co-chairman for the Oklahoma Academy of Family Physicians.

"We don't think that the reason for the methamphetamine problem is the availability of pseudoephedrine," Kohl said. "There's just not good evidence that this is effective and it's going to be a huge inconvenience to the law-abiding citizens who are using it correctly."

Yet leave it to Oklahoma lawmakers to make it a big deal, like eating fetuses and Sharia Law.