Should pseudoephedrine be by prescription only in Oklahoma?

[DolfanBob]

Of course I have.  I'm simply not buying that it's a major hardship.  What do you do when you need antibiotics?  You cannot get those without a doctor's visit.  Is it unfair you can't get those OTC?

There are countless other meds you cannot get without regular visits to the doctor.  Is that a horrible inconvenience that needs to be mitigated as well?

To a certain extent, I agree that doctor's visits are nothing but a money-grubbing PITA for them, however, there are cases where it really is necessary to check things like BP and liver function prior to or during medication.

Aqua, our legislature is totally screwed.  All this bunch cares to do is make statement legislation like pushing back how long someone has to wait (by 24 hours) to have their first legal drink or making Oklahoma officially a pro-life state.  When they get approached by a big lobby like pharma or liquor, they buckle like a teen girl getting felt up for the first time.

I love that last comparison, spot on.

[nathanm]

Of course I have.  I'm simply not buying that it's a major hardship.  What do you do when you need antibiotics?  You cannot get those without a doctor's visit.  Is it unfair you can't get those OTC?

When I think I need antibiotics, I go to the doctor, even though I can get them for next to nothing in the Dominican Republic. (most antibiotics are over the counter there) Why? Because antibiotic resistant drugs are a real thing and using them when they're not necessary or using the wrong kind for a given infection promotes that. MRSA isn't just a scare story sold to us by the media.

There are countless other meds you cannot get without regular visits to the doctor.  Is that a horrible inconvenience that needs to be mitigated as well?

If the FDA has decided that a drug is safely sold over the counter but politics prevents it, then yes, it is a horrible inconvenience and waste of money that needs to be mitigated. That goes for Plan B just as much as pseudoephedrine.

[Conan71]

When I think I need antibiotics, I go to the doctor, even though I can get them for next to nothing in the Dominican Republic. (most antibiotics are over the counter there) Why? Because antibiotic resistant drugs are a real thing and using them when they're not necessary or using the wrong kind for a given infection promotes that. MRSA isn't just a scare story sold to us by the media.

If the FDA has decided that a drug is safely sold over the counter but politics prevents it, then yes, it is a horrible inconvenience and waste of money that needs to be mitigated. That goes for Plan B just as much as pseudoephedrine.

I posted a link to a story yesterday that said Claritin D would never have gone OTC had the manufacturer been close to patent expiration.  That's where I get confused.  You'd think, as a drug company, that OTC would translate to much higher sales volume.  If a compound is approved by the FDA for OTC, I'd think that would be a boon for a particular med.

Oh well, I'm climbing off this dead horse.  Enjoy your meth er decongestant.

[Hoss]

I posted a link to a story yesterday that said Claritin D would never have gone OTC had the manufacturer been close to patent expiration.  That's where I get confused.  You'd think, as a drug company, that OTC would translate to much higher sales volume.  If a compound is approved by the FDA for OTC, I'd think that would be a boon for a particular med.

Oh well, I'm climbing off this dead horse.  Enjoy your meth er decongestant.

I think Claritin-D was the derivative of it that had PE; the new OTC version does NOT (the OTC version contains all loratadine; dash D was a combo of that and pseudoephedrine).

[Conan71]

Interesting, one representative on one side of the issue is a physician (Ritze) another is on the no side is also a physician:

The house committee defeated the proposal for at least another year by a vote of 7-6.  You and Nate can breathe easy.

               
Oklahoma House committee rejects plan to restrict pseudoephedrine access

From left, Rep. David Derby, R-Owasso and Rep. Doug Cox, R-Grove.
By WAYNE GREENE World Senior Writer
Published: 2/22/2012  2:22 AM
Last Modified: 2/22/2012  7:32 AM

  Read the Tulsa World's continuing coverage of the meth epidemic.

Keep up with all the news from the legislative session.

OKLAHOMA CITY - The House Public Health Committee rejected a plan to restrict access to pseudoephedrine, the popular allergy medicine that is a key ingredient in most Oklahoma meth labs.

The 7-6 vote against the proposal to require a prescription for pseudoephedrine purchases essentially kills the issue for the year, a leading proponent said.

"I'm devastated," said Rep. Ben Sherrer, D-Chouteau. "These legislators have chosen money over good policy."

Sherrer said the way he interprets legislative rules, all other measures that would do the same thing - including a bill he wrote last year - are dead for the year in the House. A Senate Committee rejected a similar proposal earlier this month, essentially killing the idea there.

At Tuesday's hearing, a legislative aide said there was still a way for the idea to be heard by the House, but even if that is correct, the committee's negative vote and past hesitancy by legislative leaders to bring the issue to the floor make it difficult to believe the issue is likely to rise successfully this year.

The panel voted 13-0 to approve an alternative pushed by the pharmaceutical industry that would connect Oklahoma to a multistate electronic tracking and blocking registry. That measure, offered by Rep. David Derby, R-Owasso, would also reduce the amount of pseudoephedrine that an Oklahoman could purchase in one month to 7.2 grams, about 30 days worth of medicine for allergy sufferers.

Derby's measure goes to the full House for consideration.

"This is the most responsible approach to controlling the access to pseudoephedrine without impeding access to people with legitimate needs," Derby said.

Derby said that if his measure isn't effective in getting control over the state's meth lab problem in four years, he will personally bring back a measure to require a prescription to purchase the drug.

The prescription restriction issue brought heated debate and an overflow crowd of doctors, police officers and lobbyists to a House meeting room.

"This is blood money for the pharmaceutical industry," Rep. Doug Cox, R-Grove, told lawmakers before the vote was taken.

After the vote, Cox, a physician, said he didn't know how he would be able to look police officers, social workers or prosecutors in the eye and tell them that the Legislature works for the public good.

Rep. Jeannie McDaniel, D-Tulsa, said she was also "deeply disappointed" in the committee vote.

She said meth labs are a huge problem in the Tulsa area. Four years ago, when she led an interim study on the issue, McDaniel said the pharmaceutical industry promised to deal with the problem through tracking.

"That has not happened to date," she said.

But Rep. Mike Ritze, R-Broken Arrow, said restricting access to legitimate drug buyers in the hope of stopping drug cooks is the wrong approach.

As a physician, Ritze said bill would have drummed up business for him, but it was still the wrong policy, so he voted against it.


Original Print Headline: Meth-drug curb rejected

[nathanm]

You and Nate can breathe easy.

I see what you did there. 

[AquaMan]

Right now I would feel a bit queasy if I found myself in agreement with anything that came out of Oklahoma House.

[jamesrage]

James, do you have the slightest clue how much of your tax money is going to clean up meth labs, to house meth cooks in prison, and to pay for uninsured visits to the burn ward?

Uh, other than the prescription part, that's how it's done now, only it's a 30 day supply I believe.  It's a failing proposition.  If you have a legit allergy issue, your doctor can issue 12 month prescriptions to be dispensed 30 days at a time.  Everyone should have a once a year check up anyhow.

This is hardly the hardship everyone is making this out to be.

Another alternative is they could eliminate it in tablet form since apparently the gel cap form is not a good precursor.

I don't care about the cost.Law abiding citizens should not be forced to pay for an additional cost just because of some junkies. If they want to keep it out of the hands of meth cooks then making people present a state issued ID or driver's license, sign for it and keeping their info temporarily in a database will make so that someone can not just go to a walgreens at pine and sheridan and get some pills and then go to a walgreens at 31st and Harvard or a med-x at 3rd and lewis to get more pills.This is a simple solution that doesn't add the cost of having to go to a doctor for simple cold medicine.

[Conan71]

I don't care about the cost.Law abiding citizens should not be forced to pay for an additional cost just because of some junkies. If they want to keep it out of the hands of meth cooks then making people present a state issued ID or driver's license, sign for it and keeping their info temporarily in a database will make so that someone can not just go to a walgreens at pine and sheridan and get some pills and then go to a walgreens at 31st and Harvard or a med-x at 3rd and lewis to get more pills.This is a simple solution that doesn't add the cost of having to go to a doctor for simple cold medicine.

It's not occurred to you that as a taxpayer, you pay an additional cost for all the clean up of abandoned labs, unpaid medical bills from medical issues caused by PE abuse, response of firefighters to meth labs, and housing users, dealers, and cooks in prisons all across the state?

You do realize that database already exists and it's a FAIL, right?  Or no, I guess you don't.  Tweakers get straw purchasers to go in and buy more for them once they've gotten their allotment.  If this program were successful, we would not be talking about stepping up the enforcement even more.

[Conan71]

Looks like you methheads allergy sufferers might face a bigger cluster*ck to get your meds after all.  Just wait till the database jacks you and you don't get your "service charge" back.  Might not have been such a bad idea to have a 12 month scrip for it after all, eh?

Looks like the doctors successfully put the onus on the back of the poor clerk at WalMart Pharmacy.

OKLAHOMA CITY - The state House rejected a proposal Tuesday night to require pharmacists to determine that everyone they allow to buy pseudoephedrine has a legitimate medical need for the allergy medicine - but then turned around and approved essentially the same requirement as an amendment to another bill, which passed.

Pseudoephedrine is a popular cold and allergy medicine, but it also is a key ingredient in Oklahoma meth labs.

Amid nearly three hours of debate and a blizzard of parliamentary procedures and votes on two competing pseudoephedrine bills, the House ended up passing Rep. David Derby's proposal to link Oklahoma to a multistate pseudoephedrine tracking system after Derby promised to eventually undo his own amendment that encompassed the heart of the pharmacist proposal.

While much of the evening's debate centered on the pharmacist proposals, the House also approved amendments that would lower the maximum amount of pseudoephedrine that Oklahomans can purchase and allow pharmacists to charge people who attempt to buy the drug but are rejected because they are over the state limit.

The first proposal considered by the House was House Bill 2808 by Rep. Sean Roberts, R-Hominy. That bill would require pharmacists to determine a legitimate medical need for anyone buying pseudoephedrine.

Roberts and his allies argued that his bill would reduce the number of meth labs in the state and save lives.

"I'll take (saving) lives over runny noses and watery eyes any day," said Rep. Ben Sherrer, D-Chouteau.

But opponents of the measure argued that it was an unwarranted government intrusion.

"How far down this road of government intrusion are you willing to go?" asked Rep. Fred Jordan, R-Jenks. "How much of your liberty are you willing to give up in hope that somebody doesn't have a meth lab?"

Rep. Mark McCullough, R-Sapulpa, said there are times government must intrude in people's lives to protect the public.

"When a problem gets big enough, you have to use a big stick," McCullough said.

But Rep. Don Armes, R-Faxon, author of the state's first pseudoephedrine limitation law in 2004, said he doubts that the Roberts bill would be effective.

"This cow will not stay milked," Armes said.

The bill failed 44-48.

The House then took up Derby's bill to allow Oklahoma to track pseudoephedrine sales in 19 states and make sure Oklahomans don't avoid purchasing limits by going to those other states.

Although Derby had led opposition to Roberts' bill, he offered an amendment that essentially duplicated it, requiring pharmacists to make a determination of medical need before selling the drug.

The amendment passed. Derby later conceded to lawmakers that he thought he had changed the amendment's language to make the medical determination optional for pharmacists.

Derby realized the mistake after it was too late to change it Tuesday, but he promised House members that the issue would be altered in the Senate.

The House passed an amendment to Derby's bill, offered by Rep. Doug Cox, R-Grove, that would limit pseudoephedrine purchasers to 3.4 grams per day and 7.2 grams per month. The current limit is 9 grams per month. A 10-tablet package of 24-hour Sudafed contains a total of 2.4 grams of the drug.

The House also passed an amendment by Rep. Jadine Nollan, R-Sand Springs, that would allow pharmacists to charge a service charge of up to the package price of pseudoephedrine prior to the sale. If the purchaser is OK'd for the drug purchase by the electronic tracking system, all of the service charge would be applied to the drug's cost, but the pharmacist would keep the service charge if the tracking system showed that the buyer wasn't eligible to make the purchase.

Nollan said some pharmacies are already using service charges as way of discouraging illegal pseudoephedrine buyers from even attempting to make the purchases.

Derby's bill goes to the state Senate for consideration.

Meanwhile, on the other side of the state Capitol, the Senate voted 45-1 to pass a measure to link Oklahoma to the multistate tracking system and limit pseudoephedrine sales to 3.6 grams per day, 7.2 grams per month and 60 grams a year.

Senate Bill 1634, by Sen. Rick Brinkley, R-Owasso, passed 45-1 and heads to the House for consideration.

Read more from this Tulsa World article at http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=683&articleid=20120314_16_A1_OLHMIY581488

[Hoss]

Looks like you methheads allergy sufferers might face a bigger cluster*ck to get your meds after all.  Just wait till the database jacks you and you don't get your "service charge" back.  Might not have been such a bad idea to have a 12 month scrip for it after all, eh?

Looks like the doctors successfully put the onus on the back of the poor clerk at WalMart Pharmacy.

Dude, let it go already!

[Conan71]

Dude, let it go already!

Everyone has to have their "patric" issue.  His is lights & cops.  Mine is decongestants. 

Hey, I'm just seriously thankful I can control my allergies without the asspain you are going to eventually end up with one way or the other with PE.   

I simply find it hilarious the doctors successfully sloughed this off, making people think it would have been a much bigger mess to simply do what I do once a year for Nasonex and my asthma inhaler- get the annual check up I should have and get 12 month maintenance prescriptions. 

Just wait until cross-checking on the database over 19 states ends up preventing you from a purchase due to someone who shares your name or an ID number gets transposed by a digit.

I'm simply pointing out what we wound up with may be worse than what was originally proposed in terms of cost and inconvenience.

[Hoss]

Everyone has to have their "patric" issue.  His is lights & cops.  Mine is decongestants. 

Hey, I'm just seriously thankful I can control my allergies without the asspain you are going to eventually end up with one way or the other with PE.   

I simply find it hilarious the doctors successfully sloughed this off, making people think it would have been a much bigger mess to simply do what I do once a year for Nasonex and my asthma inhaler- get the annual check up I should have and get 12 month maintenance prescriptions. 

Just wait until cross-checking on the database over 19 states ends up preventing you from a purchase due to someone who shares your name or an ID number gets transposed by a digit.

I'm simply pointing out what we wound up with may be worse than what was originally proposed in terms of cost and inconvenience.

I'm just jabbin' at ya also, chlor-trimetron or whatever that stuff is has always worked better for me than PE has.

[custosnox]

Everyone has to have their "patric" issue.  His is lights & cops.  Mine is decongestants. 

Hey, I'm just seriously thankful I can control my allergies without the asspain you are going to eventually end up with one way or the other with PE.   

I simply find it hilarious the doctors successfully sloughed this off, making people think it would have been a much bigger mess to simply do what I do once a year for Nasonex and my asthma inhaler- get the annual check up I should have and get 12 month maintenance prescriptions. 

Just wait until cross-checking on the database over 19 states ends up preventing you from a purchase due to someone who shares your name or an ID number gets transposed by a digit.

I'm simply pointing out what we wound up with may be worse than what was originally proposed in terms of cost and inconvenience.

Just to point out, there are a lot of us out there that doesn't have insurance and that yearly checkup doesn't happen (I don't think I've been in at least 6 or 7 years).  It also really isn't the same as getting antibiotics either.  How many people need antibiotics on a regular basis as compared to allergy sufferers? Same with many other prescription only meds.  It would be closer to try and compare it to making Tylenol to script only.  It is something widely used for a common ailment.  I would like to know more about PE in gel tabs.  Not finding anything really helpful on the google.

[nathanm]

I would like to know more about PE in gel tabs.

The only one I've seen is Advil Cold and Sinus. It's not great to take ibuprofen unnecessarily, though.