"The Pearl" an area that will go down in History as a turning point in Tulsa

[Cats Cats Cats]

Well of course.  Screw the other people!

He was in the military and its veterans day.  So be nice to him today.  He obviously wasn't always like this.

[takemebacktotulsa]

Not sure if this belongs in this thread, or this forum for that matter. But here it goes...Screw Downtown. People are going to other places such as Tulsa Hills, restaurant row, south Tulsa/Bixby. Spend the money and devote attention where the people are already going--not where certain people want them to go. Ducking, and donning kevlar.

I make it a point to never go south of 51st street (India Palace gets an exception). As do all my friends. IMO, there is nothing south of 51st street worth patronizing (except India Palace) that I can't get north of 51st.

[TheAnsonia]

I like to hear about 1000s going downtown for an event. Thousands go to see a show at the arena, too. How many thousands and thousands go to the malls in restaurant row and elsewhere all the time. Truth be told, I view "downtowns" as a dying concept. That's just not where people go on a regular basis anymore--they go elsewhere.

I couldn't disagree more. To give the complete opposite view, most of my friends and I (all 20's and 30's) never leave downtown unless we are going to watch sports somewhere on Brookside or buy groceries. Fix those two needs, and the lot of us may never leave that area. Our money goes to local establishments and time out on the town with friends - not mall stores or chain restaurants. I feel like I've just been though a week of Black Fridays if I go to the "Restaurant Row"/Tulsa Hills area any time of day or week. The malls (Promenade and Woodland) seem to be a dying breed whenever I patronize them 1-2x per year. I always regret having gone and wish I had just ordered online in the first place. Perhaps just my friends' and my opinion but when I read your post, I can't help but feel that you just haven't spent much time downtown in Tulsa or any other city for that matter.

[carltonplace]

I couldn't disagree more. To give the complete opposite view, most of my friends and I (all 20's and 30's) never leave downtown unless we are going to watch sports somewhere on Brookside or buy groceries. Fix those two needs, and the lot of us may never leave that area. Our money goes to local establishments and time out on the town with friends - not mall stores or chain restaurants. I feel like I've just been though a week of Black Fridays if I go to the "Restaurant Row"/Tulsa Hills area any time of day or week. The malls (Promenade and Woodland) seem to be a dying breed whenever I patronize them 1-2x per year. I always regret having gone and wish I had just ordered online in the first place. Perhaps just my friends' and my opinion but when I read your post, I can't help but feel that you just haven't spent much time downtown in Tulsa or any other city for that matter.

Hence my statement: By "people" I think you mean "guido"

[davideinstein]

I like to hear about 1000s going downtown for an event. Thousands go to see a show at the arena, too. How many thousands and thousands go to the malls in restaurant row and elsewhere all the time. Truth be told, I view "downtowns" as a dying concept. That's just not where people go on a regular basis anymore--they go elsewhere.

Downtown is where the sales growth can be found. Suburban retail is the dying concept.

[RecycleMichael]

... I can't help but feel that you just haven't spent much time downtown in Tulsa or any other city for that matter.

I work downtown so I love to play downtown. I have friends who don't work downtown and they don't get it.

Their loss.

[Conan71]

I couldn't disagree more. To give the complete opposite view, most of my friends and I (all 20's and 30's) never leave downtown unless we are going to watch sports somewhere on Brookside or buy groceries. Fix those two needs, and the lot of us may never leave that area. Our money goes to local establishments and time out on the town with friends - not mall stores or chain restaurants. I feel like I've just been though a week of Black Fridays if I go to the "Restaurant Row"/Tulsa Hills area any time of day or week. The malls (Promenade and Woodland) seem to be a dying breed whenever I patronize them 1-2x per year. I always regret having gone and wish I had just ordered online in the first place. Perhaps just my friends' and my opinion but when I read your post, I can't help but feel that you just haven't spent much time downtown in Tulsa or any other city for that matter.

He said that somewhat tongue-in-cheek.

Can't help but wonder if you ride a fixie and have an impressive collection of trucker hats.  I'd love to buy you a PBR at Sound Pony some time. 

My wife and I live in mid-town and love everything between our house and downtown. 

[MyDogHunts]

He said that somewhat tongue-in-cheek.

Can't help but wonder if you ride a fixie and have an impressive collection of trucker hats.  I'd love to buy you a PBR at Sound Pony some time. 

My wife and I live in mid-town and love everything between our house and downtown. 

]

You think Sound Pony sells PBR?  Tulsa is becoming hipper.  We welcome Marshall's beer.  Hey, who was that playing the Scottish blowfish? Dave?  Saw you there at VFW.

[carltonplace]

]

You think Sound Pony sells PBR?  Tulsa is becoming hipper.  We welcome Marshall's beer.  Hey, who was that playing the Scottish blowfish? Dave?  Saw you there at VFW.

Conan was alluding that TheAnsonian is a hipster since PBR is purportedly their lifeblood, fixies are the mode and SoundPony is the spot. I must be hipsterish since I do enjoy the peebers

[TheArtist]

Not sure if this belongs in this thread, or this forum for that matter. But here it goes...Screw Downtown. People are going to other places such as Tulsa Hills, restaurant row, south Tulsa/Bixby. Spend the money and devote attention where the people are already going--not where certain people want them to go. Ducking, and donning kevlar.

There are plenty of people who do want urban living, most of the world actually but I digress, and I think any city worth it's salt and that want's to be competitive in the world should have at least a tiny smattering of urban living/lifestyle available.  I could also give your comment a little more credence if it weren't illegal in the city to build good urban areas. We zone for and give advantage to building places like Tulsa Hills, but do not do the same for urban/pedestrian & transit friendly areas. Can't say it's the "free market at work" in such a situation.

Just spent a month in London working... never touched a car for the whole time and didn't miss it a bit.  Hardly anyone I knew or met there had a car either, nor would they wan't one.  Stayed in a four bedroom flat with a girl from Russia who had also lived in Germany for a long time, a guy from Ireland, a girl from northern Italy, and for a time a girl from India stayed there too.  Worked with people at the job site from Turkey, Belgium, and Portugal.  None of them had a car, and as far as I gather, none ever did.  I would describe to them what Tulsa was like and that you couldn't really get most places without a car and they would give you this puzzled look of incomprehension. Many stats are showing that an ever growing group of young people in the US today do not wan't to "be forced" to have to have a car in order to get around and would prefer to live in pedestrian/transit friendly areas.

(Also looked at crime statistics while I was there for one of the other guys in my group from Tulsa wondered what the crime was like in London and I said, likely much safer than in Tulsa.  I was right, going off what I remember, the last year stats for homicides for instance were available for both cities, 2012 I think, there were 89 in London and 68 in Tulsa "again just from memory", so 89 in a city of about 8 million and 68 in a city of 400,000.  Your about 20 times safer in London.  Would have to have about 1,000 murders a year in London to be about where Tulsa is. Who would live in a city like that?)

Gonna side step here.  Was reading something someone said the other day about losing the suburban/country living lifestyle in favor of cities and urban living.  Quite the contrary actually. There is no "conspiracy" to take that away.  This sprawl that we get with the current way of doing things isn't some ideal country living... it's sprawl.   

If you were to "allow for" and zone for, more urban living, you would actually have MORE country, closer in for everyone because you then wouldn't have as much sprawl.  Tulsa is, was, just the right size to have the best of both worlds.  Tulsa could have wonderful, attractive, inexpensive, urban and suburban style live/work/play options.  I don't understand why we don't allow for it, and plan for it?  I don't understand why that's such a scary thought?  Is it really so wise for us to put all our eggs in one basket then cross our fingers and hope we are right?  Just doesn't seem very smart no matter how you look at it.   

[carltonplace]

Dewey Bartlett spoke against the move for urban building in his interview with KWGS a few weeks ago. He is in favor of "growing out" rather than "growing up" and to me that shows how out of touch he is. There is a burgeoning group of urbanites in Tulsa. All of the new and announced downtown and near downtown development proves this, as did the successful "Dwell in the IDL" tour on Sunday.

Some people like to drive wherever they go. Some don't. There is room for both.

[rdj]

Conan was alluding that TheAnsonian is a hipster since PBR is purportedly their lifeblood, fixies are the mode and SoundPony is the spot. I must be hipsterish since I do enjoy the peebers

I prefer the Yellow Belly Banquet Beers over the PBR and have for years.  Unfortunately, the hipsters are starting to catch on.  What's my next move?

And, suburban retail is not a dying concept.  Just like downtown retail is a concept in revival.

[Cats Cats Cats]

I make it a point to never go south of 51st street (India Palace gets an exception). As do all my friends. IMO, there is nothing south of 51st street worth patronizing (except India Palace) that I can't get north of 51st.

It's pretty interesting the mix of people who always go downtown or never go downtown.  It depends greatly on your social group and what they do for fun.

[TheAnsonia]

He said that somewhat tongue-in-cheek.

Can't help but wonder if you ride a fixie and have an impressive collection of trucker hats.  I'd love to buy you a PBR at Sound Pony some time. 

My wife and I live in mid-town and love everything between our house and downtown. 

Just a couple lowly attorneys. Soundpony is way too hip for us most of the time.   I prefer Hodge's Bend, Tavern, The Vault, and occasionally Hunt Club.

[TheAnsonia]

There are plenty of people who do want urban living, most of the world actually but I digress, and I think any city worth it's salt and that want's to be competitive in the world should have at least a tiny smattering of urban living/lifestyle available.  I could also give your comment a little more credence if it weren't illegal in the city to build good urban areas. We zone for and give advantage to building places like Tulsa Hills, but do not do the same for urban/pedestrian & transit friendly areas. Can't say it's the "free market at work" in such a situation.

Just spent a month in London working... never touched a car for the whole time and didn't miss it a bit.  Hardly anyone I knew or met there had a car either, nor would they wan't one.  Stayed in a four bedroom flat with a girl from Russia who had also lived in Germany for a long time, a guy from Ireland, a girl from northern Italy, and for a time a girl from India stayed there too.  Worked with people at the job site from Turkey, Belgium, and Portugal.  None of them had a car, and as far as I gather, none ever did.  I would describe to them what Tulsa was like and that you couldn't really get most places without a car and they would give you this puzzled look of incomprehension. Many stats are showing that an ever growing group of young people in the US today do not wan't to "be forced" to have to have a car in order to get around and would prefer to live in pedestrian/transit friendly areas.

(Also looked at crime statistics while I was there for one of the other guys in my group from Tulsa wondered what the crime was like in London and I said, likely much safer than in Tulsa.  I was right, going off what I remember, the last year stats for homicides for instance were available for both cities, 2012 I think, there were 89 in London and 68 in Tulsa "again just from memory", so 89 in a city of about 8 million and 68 in a city of 400,000.  Your about 20 times safer in London.  Would have to have about 1,000 murders a year in London to be about where Tulsa is. Who would live in a city like that?)

Gonna side step here.  Was reading something someone said the other day about losing the suburban/country living lifestyle in favor of cities and urban living.  Quite the contrary actually. There is no "conspiracy" to take that away.  This sprawl that we get with the current way of doing things isn't some ideal country living... it's sprawl.   

If you were to "allow for" and zone for, more urban living, you would actually have MORE country, closer in for everyone because you then wouldn't have as much sprawl.  Tulsa is, was, just the right size to have the best of both worlds.  Tulsa could have wonderful, attractive, inexpensive, urban and suburban style live/work/play options.  I don't understand why we don't allow for it, and plan for it?  I don't understand why that's such a scary thought?  Is it really so wise for us to put all our eggs in one basket then cross our fingers and hope we are right?  Just doesn't seem very smart no matter how you look at it.   

I couldn't agree more with all of this. My husband lives and works downtown (and I used to work downtown before reluctantly having to move offices), and he has constantly toyed with the idea of just selling his car because he only uses it maybe once every two or three weeks. Growing up in Tulsa, I could never have imagined someone would ever be able to live here without a car. Having lived for a bit in some bigger cities, I would be absolutely thrilled if Tulsa had a number of urban walkable areas. We are slowly creeping there, but we are not getting any help from the current zoning policies.

Walkability breeds a certain safety factor that doesn't exist in areas that require cars. It creates a sense of community when you can walk around and see your neighbors on a regular basis.