"The Pearl" an area that will go down in History as a turning point in Tulsa

[nathanm]

It almost sounds like you are saying that we should intentionally put the presently advantaged kids at a disadvantage to even things out.

It sounded more to me like he was saying that the people who need help the most ought to get the most help. I tend to agree, especially when we're talking about children who can in no way be held responsible for having a crappy, drug addicted, mentally ill, overworked, or some combination of the above parent.

Personally, I think one of the larger issues that people ignore is undiagnosed mental illness causing people to miss out on the development and maintenance of life skills. Sometimes lazy and ill look an awful lot alike, unfortunately. Rather than listen to them and help them with what they actually need help with (surprisingly, people are pretty good at knowing what their immediate needs are), we point to their self medication or impulse purchases or inability to keep a job and say "oh, that's the problem right there!" No guys, that's called a symptom. Feel free to try to do something about it, but much like taking Tylenol for a fever, it's just going to come back if you don't treat the underlying cause.

[TheArtist]

It almost sounds like you are saying that we should intentionally put the presently advantaged kids at a disadvantage to even things out. 

Absolutely not what I was saying.

[Red Arrow]

It sounded more to me like he was saying that the people who need help the most ought to get the most help.

He certainly said that.  It is this part:

then why spend more money than is needed, especially if it turns out there is a need for it elsewhere?

I was not sure about, especially who gets to determine "need".

[TheArtist]

He certainly said that.  It is this part:I was not sure about, especially who gets to determine "need".

Test scores and drop out rates might be used as part of that consideration (and again, no it's not always about funding).  As has been said before, some students because of their parents, would do well regardless of whether their school had an olympic sized swimming pool or a planetarium on the roof, or not.  Where as some students, say whose parent's don't speak English as a for instance, and who themselves may not have English as a first language, might could use a little extra attention (time is money).  But with our current system of funding, it's often likely that the kids who would do just as well with less funding get the most (far more than other countries whose Children do as well or better), and those who are in situations where they could use more funding (attention), get the least. 

But, how bout just "egalitarian" spending to start with? 

I might ask you, Who gets to determine "need" now?  or do you think there is no "need"?

[Red Arrow]

Test scores and drop out rates might be used as part of that consideration (and again, no it's not always about funding).  As has been said before, some students because of their parents, would do well regardless of whether their school had an olympic sized swimming pool or a planetarium on the roof, or not.  Where as some students, say whose parent's don't speak English as a for instance, and who themselves may not have English as a first language, might could use a little extra attention (time is money).  But with our current system of funding, it's often likely that the kids who would do just as well with less funding get the most (far more than other countries whose Children do as well or better), and those who are in situations where they could use more funding (attention), get the least.  

But, how bout just "egalitarian" spending to start with?  

I might ask you, Who gets to determine "need" now?  or do you think there is no "need"?

There are certainly students not being properly served by our school system. (The spelling on this forum is proof of that.)  Oklahoma's attempt to grade our schools is evidently flawed but that is a start to find out which schools have more needs.  Testing to determine if students are progressing properly seems to be a social taboo.  Some kids just won't progress as well as others.  Making a kid repeat a year for failure to meet the standard to pass to the next grade needs to be given more consideration than it presently appears to have.  (I don't have any offspring so I don't have a first hand relationship with the schools.)  One thing I don't really have an answer to is how to get parents to put a value on education and pass that along to their kids. Parents who don't speak English and don't want to learn English do a disservice to their kids. Making it easier to live here without speaking English doesn't help that situation.  I think it's wonderful to be able to speak multiple languages.  If you live in the USA, one of them should be English.

Funding isn't everything but it is obviously important.  I don't have a problem with the State or the Feds using some of my tax money to help out the less fortunate school districts.  Of course that money comes with strings and rightly so.  Egalitarian spending would imply that the folks in the Jenks school district should not be allowed to vote themselves a higher tax rate for better schools.  I think they should be allowed to do that and to keep that extra money in their school district.

All the schools should meet a minimum standard which will properly prepare their students for life after graduation.  Who gets to set that standard?  It seems no one wants the Federal Government to do it.  Some folks don't even want the States to set the standards, instead letting some lower level of government set the standards.  I am inclined to have a mix where the Feds set some really basic standards such as English language instruction every year.  States could opt to add things like local history.  Some schools will want to be better than the minimum and they should be allowed to do that.

[dioscorides]

Compromise offered on Pearl District's 6th Street Infill Plan
Posted: Thursday, January 16, 2014 12:00 am | Updated: 7:14 am, Thu Jan 16, 2014.
By KEVIN CANFIELD World Staff Writer

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/government/compromise-offered-on-pearl-district-s-th-street-infill-plan/article_5cc0b663-0021-565c-aa01-edee9f00ae87.html

City Councilor Blake Ewing and the Pearl District Business and Property Owners Association have proposed a compromise on changes to the Pearl District 6th Street Infill Plan.

The agreement calls for 11th Street from Troost to Peoria avenues to remain designated for mixed-use development. The Property and Business Association had proposed — and the Tulsa Metropolitan Area Planning Commission has adopted — an amendment designating that stretch of 11th Street auto-oriented.

Ewing, who represents the district and owns a business there, said the mixed-use designation — which envisions walkable areas similar to Cherry Street, where structures are built to the sidewalk — makes sense along 11th Street.

"We have building stock, and it's built up to the curb right now," he said. "It would make sense that future development along 11th Street be consistent with the building stock that is already there."

The designation also makes sense because 11th Street is part of historic Route 66, Ewing said.

"If we want that to be a tourist area, it needs to have that kind of Cherry Street feel," he said.

Small-area plans such as the 6th Street Infill Plan are policy documents that lay out the city's vision for the development of a particular area. They are not regulating documents but information for decision-makers — including future planning commissioners — who are charged with considering zoning changes and other land-use regulations.

The 6th Street Infill Plan was initiated by another Pearl District group — the Pearl District Association — nearly 10 years ago and adopted by the City Council in 2006.

The backers of the plan envisioned creating a dense, urban environment that encouraged walkability and focused less on automobile-oriented development.

The Pearl District Business and Property Owners Association — whose members include manufacturers and other auto-oriented businesses — have said they were never included in the original process and responded by proposing amendments to the plan that, among other things, changed 11th Street's designation from mixed-use to auto-oriented.

The amendments were adopted by the Planning Commission and are now before the City Council, where Planning Commission Chairman Michael Covey will appear Thursday to discuss the issue.

Councilors can approve the amendments in whole or in part, or they can send the amendments back in whole or in part for reconsideration by the Planning Commission.

Ewing said he expects that the council will send the map back to the Planning Commission for its approval of the 11th Street compromise and that the council will likely approve the rest of the amendments.

That is bad news as far Pearl District Association President Thom Crowe is concerned.

"This is not a compromise at all," he said. "It is a complete disappointment."

According to Crowe, the amended 6th Street Infill Plan will turn the area into an industrial park.

"We are turning Peoria (Avenue) into something less like Cherry Street and more like 71st Street and Memorial Drive," Crowe said.

[carltonplace]

Leave it to Tulsa to screw a good thing up.

[TheArtist]

  This also troubles me...
"Small-area plans such as the 6th Street Infill Plan are policy documents that lay out the city's vision for the development of a particular area. They are not regulating documents but information for decision-makers — including future planning commissioners — who are charged with considering zoning changes and other land-use regulations."

No telling how long it's going to take to get the small-area plans finished up. Years and years likely. Then once they are done, they are still not regulating documents but "information" for future planning commissioners to use when "considering" zoning changes. How long is it really going to take to fully implement the new comprehensive plan and get urban/pedestrian/bike friendly zoning in place?  Did the last one take this long?  Seems like by the time they get this one done a generation will have passed and they will have to start again.

Also, is there something that already qualifies as a small area plan for downtown, or will we have to start one?

[patric]

Leave it to Tulsa to screw a good thing up.

Actually just a handful of businesses that pretend to be good neighbors while hoping the process would go away if they ignore it.

[SXSW]

Glad to see 11th will stay mixed use, and I see that stretch eventually being completely redeveloped and neighborhoods on both sides much more desirable because of it.  The stretch of Peoria between 11th and 6th is perfect for urban apartments with great skyline views across the cemetery and park.  And there is ongoing revitalization of 6th between Peoria and Trenton. 

If it were my compromise though I would have made sure 6th all the way to the IDL and Peoria to 3rd were included as mixed use, not auto oriented, and expanded the redevelopment area to include the small neighborhood between the IDL and Peoria, 6th to 3rd.  Areas closer to Centennial Park will eventually be more desirable as the area gentrifies.

[davideinstein]

Glad to see some effort going into the 11th Street corridor.

[SXSW]

Glad to see some effort going into the 11th Street corridor.

I do think someday in the not too distant future that 11th could be a perfect route for a streetcar linking TU to downtown.  It has been neglected for decades but remains a corridor with great historical value both locally and nationally.  The streetcar would run in a loop downtown utilizing Boulder and Elgin (once a bridge is built over the tracks) and two couplets: Archer/Brady and 3rd/4th.  On Elgin the streetcar would run to 6th then head east to Peoria, then south to 11th running all the way to near Harvard at TU.  By this time TU would hopefully better enhance the 11th St frontage of its campus and encourage/support private development of sidewalk-fronting shops and restaurants on the south side of the street. 

[jacobi]

If people see what can happen via 11th street, it may be easier in future to get a better plan in place.  Also, I want a pony.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Conan71]

I do think someday in the not too distant future that 11th could be a perfect route for a streetcar linking TU to downtown.  It has been neglected for decades but remains a corridor with great historical value both locally and nationally.  The streetcar would run in a loop downtown utilizing Boulder and Elgin (once a bridge is built over the tracks) and two couplets: Archer/Brady and 3rd/4th.  On Elgin the streetcar would run to 6th then head east to Peoria, then south to 11th running all the way to near Harvard at TU.  By this time TU would hopefully better enhance the 11th St frontage of its campus and encourage/support private development of sidewalk-fronting shops and restaurants on the south side of the street. 

Why wouldn't you take the loop all the way up 6th St. back to the Campus?

[Rookie Okie]

Glad to see some effort going into the 11th Street corridor.

Yes, it would be good to see more development along 11th street.

BTW, can someone please explain to this newcomer why/ how 11th St./ historic Rte 66 ended up as such an unsightly several mile used car lot?  It represents such a good opportunity to make it one of the most (if not the most) memorable stretch of this iconic piece of Americana.  I was sort of expecting the urban stretch in Tulsa to be a neat destination strip for residents and tourists alike to flock and enjoy.  I would have envisioned it to be more of a Peoria /Cherry Street walkable type strip but extended for several miles, teeming with diverse restaurants, coffeehouses, galleries, retail and specialty shops.  I could have also envisioned large overhead lit signs that cross the road welcoming visitors to historic rte 66.