"The Pearl" an area that will go down in History as a turning point in Tulsa

[AquaMan]

Transport.

Just came back from road trip to Minn/StPaul and (northern)Wisconsin where I drove on the best built and maintained roads through 6 states, and yet....they also have light rail connecting the metroplex to the surrounding small towns. One small town, Elk River has a fine old restored downtown, 1940's-50's era, that was busy on a Saturday nite in spite of the nearby city.

While Tulsans moan about the impossibility of profitable trains, light rail, bus systems etc., the rest of civilization seems to find them indispensable to growth and an expected part of infrastructure. While we complain about roundabouts, even the rural two lane roads have them there. While we cry about freeze/thaw, they build roads the Romans would be proud of in a more hostile environment. They post signs to warn of a narrow stretch of highway at 14ft 3in while in Okla. that size is a given. After their bridge collapse a few years ago I noticed a large number of new bridges all along 35 starting in Iowa. I never came across a toll road or road construction after leaving OK.  Not a wrinkled, rutted, pothole strewn road....til you hit the Oklahoma border with a loud bump. The road narrows, the drivers throttle up and commence Texas road rules.

And guess what?  My brother in law who lives just outside of StPaul pays half of my real estate tax for a home twice a large. Half my insurance too. Seems insurance companies like the lower claims and government is not politically hamstrung.

I know its not a perfect area. My gawd, the weather! Everyone I spoke to, conservative or liberal, thinks the Wisconsin governor is a boob. But they get over it and keep building, re-building and re-thinking. Lots of problems that all states and cities have. But they seem to have lower property taxes, lower insurance, better government and better roads.

And we can't get a train from OKC, to Tulsa to Kansas City??? We have to start thinking bigger and drop the political rhetoric or we're doomed to (continued) mediocrity.

[MyDogHunts]

And your point is....??

I would take exception to the donut section - Portland has Tulsa beat six ways from Sundays on donuts!!  Voo-Doo donuts, that is.... SOOO wish they would have that here!!

First thing I noticed in Tulsa is donut shops.  Portland has us beat on quality, not quantity.  My point being, Portland is Not just tree hugging hippies no more than Tulsa is... either you get it or not.

[Red Arrow]

Transport.

Just came back from road trip to Minn/StPaul and (northern)Wisconsin where I drove on the best built and maintained roads through 6 states, and yet....they also have light rail connecting the metroplex to the surrounding small towns. One small town, Elk River has a fine old restored downtown, 1940's-50's era, that was busy on a Saturday nite in spite of the nearby city.

While Tulsans moan about the impossibility of profitable trains, light rail, bus systems etc., the rest of civilization seems to find them indispensable to growth and an expected part of infrastructure. While we complain about roundabouts, even the rural two lane roads have them there. While we cry about freeze/thaw, they build roads the Romans would be proud of in a more hostile environment. They post signs to warn of a narrow stretch of highway at 14ft 3in while in Okla. that size is a given. After their bridge collapse a few years ago I noticed a large number of new bridges all along 35 starting in Iowa. I never came across a toll road or road construction after leaving OK.  Not a wrinkled, rutted, pothole strewn road....til you hit the Oklahoma border with a loud bump. The road narrows, the drivers throttle up and commence Texas road rules.

And guess what?  My brother in law who lives just outside of StPaul pays half of my real estate tax for a home twice a large. Half my insurance too. Seems insurance companies like the lower claims and government is not politically hamstrung.

I know its not a perfect area. My gawd, the weather! Everyone I spoke to, conservative or liberal, thinks the Wisconsin governor is a boob. But they get over it and keep building, re-building and re-thinking. Lots of problems that all states and cities have. But they seem to have lower property taxes, lower insurance, better government and better roads.

And we can't get a train from OKC, to Tulsa to Kansas City??? We have to start thinking bigger and drop the political rhetoric or we're doomed to (continued) mediocrity.

Looks like income tax is higher.  I didn't look into deductions etc.

State sales tax is higher.  Local sales tax maybe not so much.

http://www.revenue.state.mn.us/individuals/individ_income/Pages/Minnesota_Income_Tax_Rates_and_Brackets.aspx

http://www.tax-brackets.org/oklahomataxtable

http://www.revenue.state.mn.us/businesses/sut/Pages/SalesTaxCalculator.aspx

http://www.taxrates.com/state-rates/minnesota/?CampaignID=70140000000VJsx&_kk=mn%20sales%20tax&gclid=CMit78bblLsCFWhxQgodfQcA4A

[AquaMan]

It's got to be paid for in some way. I was hoping you would chime in. These people seem to take mass transit AND Infrastructure as a basic requirement for growth both city and suburban. We seem to think one or the other and only if taxes aren't affected. What they pay out in added income taxes may be offset in higher income opportunity an lower insurance. Besides a higher quality of life.

[heironymouspasparagus]

First thing I noticed in Tulsa is donut shops.  Portland has us beat on quality, not quantity.  My point being, Portland is Not just tree hugging hippies no more than Tulsa is... either you get it or not.

I get it...love Portland, but not sure my "Okie" attitudes could survive too long there.  Or Seattle, or many places up  along that coast.  But I really enjoy being there the time I do get to spend in it.

[heironymouspasparagus]

It's got to be paid for in some way. I was hoping you would chime in. These people seem to take mass transit AND Infrastructure as a basic requirement for growth both city and suburban. We seem to think one or the other and only if taxes aren't affected. What they pay out in added income taxes may be offset in higher income opportunity an lower insurance. Besides a higher quality of life.

Very much so.  I work closely with a LOT of people in Wis and MN for the last few years.  Other than the snowblowers, the toys they all have to play with are fantastic!  And all winter/snow related!!  Small ice houses for ice fishing!!  In addition to the normal assortment of summer toys found both here and there....

Incomes are somewhat higher.  The big difference I see when looking there as possible short term relocation event is the cost of housing - geez...what a jolt that will be!!


Biggest problem I see is the speed of speech - we talk slower here.  And they tend to get a little 'anxious' for us to speak faster.  Cultural difference.  I think they do that so their jaws will move faster and generate enough heat to keep them from freezing up.

[Rookie Okie]

Twin Cities = bike lanes everywhere.....More than bike friendly but bike loving culture, plus those many small but real lakes all throughout the city that add another dimension to urban ambient settings.  Those bike lanes were implemented more than 20 years ago before most cities go with the program.  If not for the arctic cold winters, I can't think of a better area and quality of life.

Water to the river, Water to the Pearl!  Word....

[MyDogHunts]

Something deeper is needed in Tulsa than just mass-transit improvements, a full river, better street lights, inner city infill. Reading our posts we seem to love someone else and yet are staying faithful and hopeful to our Tulsa.

Leaves are falling and my neighbors do not rake them out of the street gutter and drains.  Have you rode a bus lately.  I don't drive anymore, I use the bus and walk.  It is a rude, crude, loud, unconcerned trip to ride the bus often.  If a person visits and rides the 203 from the airport I would bet money, the odds are, they will take a taxi to go back home.

Don't get me wrong, I love Tulsa.  I do cheat on her; even with Kansas City.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Something deeper is needed in Tulsa than just mass-transit improvements, a full river, better street lights, inner city infill. Reading our posts we seem to love someone else and yet are staying faithful and hopeful to our Tulsa.

Leaves are falling and my neighbors do not rake them out of the street gutter and drains. 

You mention leaves - I saw the most amazing thing over Thanksgiving in a small town in eastern Appalachia Tennessee.  When someone has many (or just a few) trees in their yard, instead of raking, mulching, bagging, burning, etc, they can have their yard care people come by with the grass blowers and blow the leaves to the curb!  Or they can rake them to the curb themselves.  The city then comes by with a large vacuum truck, sucks up all the leaves and takes them to the city facility to mulch and compost!!  The city then uses the compost on parks, etc. or lets people come get what they want for their gardens/yards!

This is not a rich town, either.  It very much is classic, low income Appalachia!  They just have figured out a way to help the city/citizens and keep the town looking nice in a very cost effective manner.

The only issue I have is the removal of all those leaves from 'my' property, but I would have the option to keep and process the leaves myself.  Or just go get some finished compost later....

This is an example of how city services should work - to the benefit of the citizens!

[Cats Cats Cats]

You mention leaves - I saw the most amazing thing over Thanksgiving in a small town in eastern Appalachia Tennessee.  When someone has many (or just a few) trees in their yard, instead of raking, mulching, bagging, burning, etc, they can have their yard care people come by with the grass blowers and blow the leaves to the curb!  Or they can rake them to the curb themselves.  The city then comes by with a large vacuum truck, sucks up all the leaves and takes them to the city facility to mulch and compost!!  The city then uses the compost on parks, etc. or lets people come get what they want for their gardens/yards!

This is not a rich town, either.  It very much is classic, low income Appalachia!  They just have figured out a way to help the city/citizens and keep the town looking nice in a very cost effective manner.

The only issue I have is the removal of all those leaves from 'my' property, but I would have the option to keep and process the leaves myself.  Or just go get some finished compost later....

This is an example of how city services should work - to the benefit of the citizens!

I can see it now... 8 weeks of wondering when they will come pickup the leaves.

[patric]

The city then comes by with a large vacuum truck, sucks up all the leaves and takes them to the city facility to mulch and compost!!  The city then uses the compost on parks, etc. or lets people come get what they want for their gardens/yards!

Not at all unusual, I know of some towns in the northeast that do that.   Its no different than street cleaners.

[heironymouspasparagus]

I can see it now... 8 weeks of wondering when they will come pickup the leaves.

Dates are defined - and there are several.  Day or two before, you have the leaves moved to the curb.  They disappear.  One I saw (staying next door) had a pile about 5 ft tall, 15 ft wide, 150 ft long along the curb.  Lots of big oak trees!

[heironymouspasparagus]

Not at all unusual, I know of some towns in the northeast that do that.   Its no different than street cleaners.

Amazed me.  Have never encountered that before, but have obviously missed the leaf "window"....

[TheArtist]

Something deeper is needed in Tulsa than just mass-transit improvements, a full river, better street lights, inner city infill. Reading our posts we seem to love someone else and yet are staying faithful and hopeful to our Tulsa.

Leaves are falling and my neighbors do not rake them out of the street gutter and drains.  Have you rode a bus lately.  I don't drive anymore, I use the bus and walk.  It is a rude, crude, loud, unconcerned trip to ride the bus often.  If a person visits and rides the 203 from the airport I would bet money, the odds are, they will take a taxi to go back home.

Don't get me wrong, I love Tulsa.  I do cheat on her; even with Kansas City.

That list is an important part of what needs to be done.  We need to tackle Tulsa's stagnant growth and lack of competitiveness on several fronts at the same time.  The other part imho would be better education, not just math, science, etc. but "How to be a good person/parent, creating good life habits and life skills" type education.  I would have rather us take half of that billion dollars for the streets and dumped it into education.  That would have improved our economy/desirability/standard of living, more over the long haul than having slightly better streets over the next few years will.

[AquaMan]

And that's the key to the whole house. People up there are smart because their parents and grandparents invested in education when ours did not.
Even as a child I remember kids coming from Iowa who were a grade level ahead of us at the same age. That education then enabled them to solve the problems we find insurmountable. The best education here is a careful route planned through TPS or private schools. It seems our legislators want to strangle one child in hopes the other will be more successful.

The whole point of my post was that they have found out how to integrate mass transit, quality road construction and growth in both inner city and suburbs while improving their quality of life. They did it and kept taxes manageable. They have good governance that stems from their good educations. As a contrast, Bartlett could not have been elected without the suburban vote and his first declaration is to put water in the river even though south Tulsa voted against the previous water in the river issues!

I refuse to believe the only reason is that they are simply smarter than us. They transcend their political, racial and religious differences. We don't.