Could Phoenix Coyotes make Tulsa their new home?

[Teatownclown]

Lar, you're not in banking are you? Don't. You'd cost your employer if you were a loan officer.

[RecycleMichael]

Would like to mention that several NHL teams are having problems right now and there are a number of cities where if the NHL were to relocate it would be the only major game in town.

Oklahoma could support an NHL franchise in Tulsa and an NBA franchise in Oklahoma City.

Spare me laramie. It is so benevolent of you to think that Tulsa should get a pro sports team, albeit it one that the entire league is dying. Hockey TV ratings are incredibly microscopicly low and when the player's contract expires on September 15, 2012, there will probably be a player's strike.

The main reason OKC got the Thunder is that millions in state dollars helped pay for it. What do you think the odds would be that the state would pay millions to help Tulsa get a pro hockey team? Zero.

You say, "Oklahoma could support an NHL franchise in Tulsa and an NBA franchise in Oklahoma City." I say, "When the legislature and Governor do something big like this for Tulsa, we won't need an ice rink for hockey, because Hell would have froze over and we could skate anywhere."

[TulsaRufnex]

A couple of things that are conspicuously missing from the latest Laramie NHL in Tulsa diatribe and pipedream are:  deep pocketed and committed ownership and..... revenue streams.

I fear that it was enough of a stretch for Tulsa's WNBA ownership group to commit enough local money to move the team here and keep the team here... the Shock could easily play their games at the Reynolds Center, the Mabee Center, or the UMAC... but it is luxury suites at the high profile BOk Center that sealed the deal, and ultimately seals the team's fate, whatever that may be.... and the deep pockets in that ownership group have made the choice of backing the WNBA Shock over the arguably more popular Talons...

I was contacted by Cameron Box Sports a couple of years ago regarding the idea of bringing an NASL team (one level below MLS) to Tulsa... unfortunately I had to tell them that a pro soccer team playing at the old ballpark on the fairgrounds not only would have no BOk or Oneok Park corporate suites at their disposal, and that the powers that be (a certain douchebag county commissioner) also insisted they would have zero control over concessions, that 100% of concessions sales would go to the county, and that a prospective team would NEVER get the sweetheart lease deal the Drillers got when they were there... strike one... strike two... strike three... three deal breakers and you're out...

If someone in Tulsa can motivate 10,000 Tulsans to commit to NHL season tickets (that's how Columbus got a Major League Soccer team over Tulsa in 1995), I could see it happening... but only if those season ticket commitments motivated movers and shakers with the big bucks in Tulsa to commit to alot of red ink... and whether that financial backing would amount to enough to stand up to the financial commitment of groups in Kansas City or Quebec City or Seattle or Hartford or ?.... and the WNBA Shock would be dropped like an unforced turnover...

Of course, if the State of Oklahoma had backed up former Mayor LaFortune with an enterprise zone or star-bonds sometime between 2002 and 2005, etc, rather than having Brad Lund/Bob Funk/Express Sports insist on the superiority of OKC's soccer market to Tulsa's in MLS's expansion sweepstakes at that time... http://usasoccer.blogspot.com/2007/11/history-of-mls-expansion-and-franchises.html   ...a little state and local help and committed ownership coulda gave Tulsa something like this... http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/news/2011/06/09/livestrong-sporting-park-opens-mls.html  ...how iconic...

So, there ya go.... and wherever you go... there you are.
Meanwhile, back to your regularly scheduled hockey discussion...

[Laramie]

Spare me laramie. It is so benevolent of you to think that Tulsa should get a pro sports team, albeit it one that the entire league is dying. Hockey TV ratings are incredibly microscopicly low and when the player's contract expires on September 15, 2012, there will probably be a player's strike.

The main reason OKC got the Thunder is that millions in state dollars helped pay for it. What do you think the odds would be that the state would pay millions to help Tulsa get a pro hockey team? Zero.

You say, "Oklahoma could support an NHL franchise in Tulsa and an NBA franchise in Oklahoma City." I say, "When the legislature and Governor do something big like this for Tulsa, we won't need an ice rink for hockey, because Hell would have froze over and we could skate anywhere."

Are you making reference to the Oklahoma's Quality Jobs Program?  The tax breaks had nothing to do with the decision to relocate.  The Sonic owners (PBC) were Oklahoma owners who were losing an estimated $15-$20 million in Seattle.  The tax breaks given the team were no different from any other entity relocating to Oklahoma.

What brought the Sonics to Oklahoma City was the MAPS for HOOPS, 'Big League City' Initative approved by Oklahoma City voters which funded the arema upgrades and a practice facility:

http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-thunders-practice-facility-will-be-the-place-for-players/article/3395005

OKC voters approved MAPS for HOOPS:

http://mynorthwest.com/?sid=33158&nid=11


I lived briefly in Tulsa and I wouldn't sell the 'Magic Empire' short of having the potential to support one major league franchise.

As for the Oklahoma Legislature--this team would have relocated regardless of the tax incentives.  We do have state income tax and a jobs program which the franchise relocation did qualify.  

What are the chances of this (NHL in Tulsa) happening?  Well, there were nay-sayers in Oklahoma City when we entered the NHL expansion derby back in 1997; Oklahoma City and Houston were left out in the cold.  We came up short.  OKC did get a trial-run with the transplanted New Orleans Hornets temporary 2-year relocation.

Tulsa is a much more diverse and cosmopolitan city than OKC which is a cluster of suburbia--OKC is finally beginning to take on an urban flavor.  Tulsa has a higher per capita income; more people per square mile (population density) and corporately stronger than OKC.    

There are three things that the NBA and NHL want from their communities:

1.  Market:  Population & Media
2.  Facility
3.  Ownership

Tulsa definitely has two of these.  Local ownership would be the key.

Sure, I'm no expert and certainly not a banker; however, I do recognize that there are two great communities in Oklahoma (Tulsa & Oklahoma City).

[Hoss]

Are you making reference to the Oklahoma's Quality Jobs Program?  The tax breaks had nothing to do with the decision to relocate.  The Sonic owners (PBC) were Oklahoma owners who were losing an estimated $15-$20 million in Seattle.  The tax breaks given the team were no different from any other entity relocating to Oklahoma.

What brought the Sonics to Oklahoma City was the MAPS for HOOPS, 'Big League City' Initative approved by Oklahoma City voters which funded the arema upgrades and a practice facility:

http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-thunders-practice-facility-will-be-the-place-for-players/article/3395005

OKC voters approved MAPS for HOOPS:

http://mynorthwest.com/?sid=33158&nid=11


I lived briefly in Tulsa and I wouldn't sell the 'Magic Empire' short of having the potential to support one major league franchise.

As for the Oklahoma Legislature--this team would have relocated regardless of the tax incentives.  We do have state income tax and a jobs program which the franchise relocation did qualify.  

What are the chances of this (NHL in Tulsa) happening?  Well, there were nay-sayers in Oklahoma City when we entered the NHL expansion derby back in 1997; Oklahoma City and Houston were left out in the cold.  We came up short.  OKC did get a trial-run with the transplanted New Orleans Hornets temporary 2-year relocation.

Tulsa is a much more diverse and cosmopolitan city than OKC which is a cluster of suburbia--OKC is finally beginning to take on an urban flavor.  Tulsa has a higher per capita income; more people per square mile (population density) and corporately stronger than OKC.    

There are three things that the NBA and NHL want from their communities:

1.  Market:  Population & Media
2.  Facility
3.  Ownership

Tulsa definitely has two of these.  Local ownership would be the key.

Sure, I'm no expert and certainly not a banker; however, I do recognize that there are two great communities in Oklahoma (Tulsa & Oklahoma City).

And while I don't think it will happen anytime soon, Tulsa does have a bit of a longer history with hockey than it does with soccer (1920s).  It also has a dense population base to draw from regionally (1/2 of the Oklahoma population live in Green Country, which is about 1/4 of the land area of Oklahoma).  It could also draw from communities Bartlesville, Muskogee, the region of NW Arkansas and etc.

But investors would definitely need to be committed.  The reason hockey doesn't do well here is because the current owner doesn't promote it and won't spend money to do so.  Wichita is enjoying the rewards of new ownership who are vested in the team and its success.  I'm not so sure about Lund right now.  He's pretty much fielded a franchise/operation on the cheap since he acquired controlling interest in the team from Horn Chen some years ago.

[TulsaRufnex]

And while I don't think it will happen anytime soon, Tulsa does have a bit of a longer history with hockey than it does with soccer (1920s).  It also has a dense population base to draw from regionally (1/2 of the Oklahoma population live in Green Country, which is about 1/4 of the land area of Oklahoma).  It could also draw from communities Bartlesville, Muskogee, the region of NW Arkansas and etc.

Yawn.  There you go again.

The current fanbase and youth participation rate for soccer in this city is far larger than the fanbase has ever been for ice hockey.
The modern youth soccer movement now has a few decades under its belt (Pele was the sport's ambassador in the mid 70s)..... competitive club soccer in Tulsa is very popular here... Competitive youth hockey in Tulsa?  Does such a thing exist?  Of course, pro hockey has been gifted with multiple publicly financed arenas over the years while Tulsa could have got an MLS team in the 90s if TU had gone with a grass field at Skelly Stadium in the 90s.... go figure.... time to start some new traditions...

[Hoss]

Yawn.  There you go again.

The current fanbase and youth participation rate for soccer in this city is far larger than the fanbase has ever been for ice hockey.
The modern youth soccer movement now has a few decades under its belt (Pele was the sport's ambassador in the mid 70s)..... competitive club soccer in Tulsa is very popular here... Competitive youth hockey in Tulsa?  Does such a thing exist?  Of course, pro hockey has been gifted with multiple publicly financed arenas over the years while Tulsa could have got an MLS team in the 90s if TU had gone with a grass field at Skelly Stadium in the 90s.... go figure.... time to start some new traditions...

And there you go again...Jeff.

It certainly isn't the fault of hockey in the Tulsa area that it can be played in a multipurpose indoor arena.  Wait, didn't indoor soccer get that?  And how long did it last here?

And do you not know that there are many school hockey clubs in Tulsa?  http://www.eteamz.com/thsh/

While I certainly have nothing against soccer (played it in highschool) quit your bitchin about people who actually DO like another sport other than soccer.  This whole thread talks about hockey.  Not soccer.  Start your own.

Jeez.

[Teatownclown]

Ruf, I love it when you post this stuff! All those years ago, these are the greatest moments in Tulsa professional sports. We brought our own beer in coolers into the stands, smoked it up, and went wild. It was the best of times!
It was the doo dah days. Money flowed like wine. Carl Moore and Rick Lowenhertz! Caskey, Moreland, Woodward, Danifard et al...the list is long.
Pele, Canaglia, Berkenbauer....Crazy George! too...

Thanks!

[TulsaRufnex]

And there you go again...Jeff.

It certainly isn't the fault of hockey in the Tulsa area that it can be played in a multipurpose indoor arena.  Wait, didn't indoor soccer get that?  And how long did it last here?

And do you not know that there are many school hockey clubs in Tulsa?  http://www.eteamz.com/thsh/

While I certainly have nothing against soccer (played it in highschool) quit your bitchin about people who actually DO like another sport other than soccer.  This whole thread talks about hockey.  Not soccer.  Start your own.

Jeez.

First, if I started a thread, it'd get lost in all the useless hockey threads with zero responses here... second, I'd rather watch women play hockey or roller derby than watch minor leaguers in the CHL.... third, this thread was started by Laramie from OKC, which means it's more about getting a major league pro sports team in Tulsa than it is about hockey.

Ask me how I know this.
Oh, and I like most other sports...

Thanks for playing.

RUF

[Conan71]

And there you go again...Jeff.

It certainly isn't the fault of hockey in the Tulsa area that it can be played in a multipurpose indoor arena.  Wait, didn't indoor soccer get that?  And how long did it last here?

And do you not know that there are many school hockey clubs in Tulsa?  http://www.eteamz.com/thsh/

While I certainly have nothing against soccer (played it in highschool) quit your bitchin about people who actually DO like another sport other than soccer.  This whole thread talks about hockey.  Not soccer.  Start your own.

Jeez.

I always love his sourcing though.  To illustrate how popular soccer is in Tulsa today, he references a couple of 33 year old videos.

Actually, Ruf, I do quite enjoy the old Roughnecks vids.  Still can't help sparring with you though  

[Hoss]

I always love his sourcing though.  To illustrate how popular soccer is in Tulsa today, he references a couple of 33 year old videos.

Actually, Ruf, I do quite enjoy the old Roughnecks vids.  Still can't help sparring with you though  

And as I've said, I like soccer too.  But not enough to denigrate fans of other sports like he has a tendency to do.

[RecycleMichael]

I am going to KC this weekend with my son's soccer team (his coach is Victor Moreland). In his bracket are teams from Oklahoma, Kansas, St. Louis and Chicago. The hotels and restaurants are packed this weekend and they have 20 similar tournaments a year at those fields. Soccer is creating great revenue.

My daughter plays competitive soccer too. Her club (Blitz United) has six competitive teams of nothing but ten year old girls. It the Tulsa area in her age group there are 15 competitive teams and twice as many recreation teams.

I agree with Rufnex. Soccer is super popular in Tulsa and I think Tulsa would support a pro team (especially a USL team).

[DowntownDan]

I just don't see an NHL franchise surviving here.  It would be maybe only slightly more popular than the WNBA.  Why can't we just try and move up at least one notch to AAA baseball and/or AHL hockey?  I hate that we are in a baseball league with a bunch of Texas suburbs.  I want to play teams from actual cities, and have a real rivalry with OKC in AAA baseball.

[Hoss]

I just don't see an NHL franchise surviving here.  It would be maybe only slightly more popular than the WNBA.  Why can't we just try and move up at least one notch to AAA baseball and/or AHL hockey?  I hate that we are in a baseball league with a bunch of Texas suburbs.  I want to play teams from actual cities, and have a real rivalry with OKC in AAA baseball.

No one saw the NBA surviving in OKC either.

I 'm not saying we could do it, just stating the fact.

[DowntownDan]

OKC got lucky that their team got really good really fast.  I think they would have struggled to sustain sell outs once the newness wore off if the team stunk.  But they are really, really good, and are likely to make the Finals and possibly win it all.  That goes a long way to build long term success.  Already hooked a large portion of this state.  I suppose a Tulsa NHL team could do the same, but they would have a barrier that OKC did not.  Tulsan's as a whole aren't big hockey fans.  We at least had a good base of basketball fans through our college teams.  There just aren't many Tulsans or Oklahomans that grew up playing hockey and cheering on hockey players.