State of The Union 2012

[Conan71]

[nathanm]

Investment ostensibly creates jobs.

Ostensibly being the key word.

There is some correlation, as there obviously has to be, but investment turns more into capital gains than increased employment.

[Gaspar]

Um, ok.  Here's a graph of seismic activity.



I'm waiting for an AND WE'RE BACK moment.

[nathanm]

How about something germane. If you need me to translate, the graph is YoY change in percentage of the following: Red is employment, blue is investment, green is corporate profit. You could have just read it from the graph, but I don't mind being condescending when you ask for it.

[Gaspar]

How about something germane. If you need me to translate, the graph is YoY change in percentage of the following: Red is employment, blue is investment, green is corporate profit.

Yay!. . .or YoY I guess.

I applaud your desire to shift the topic, but your segue is a bit jagged.

I would have first rolled into an explanation of the connection between revenue, payroll taxes, and the contraction of the workforce, then moved to how that correlates to investment.  Then I would have been free to completely ignore the topic fumble.

Your graph is a fine graph.  Keep it and we will discuss it some other time, i'm sure.

[nathanm]

Yay!. . .or YoY I guess.

I applaud your desire to shift the topic, but your segue is a bit jagged.

I was responding to Conan, which you might have noted given that I quoted him.

[Teatownclown]

Investment ostensibly creates jobs.

Bain capitalism (financial capitalism) takes money out of the public. It hurts workers. Keep trying....

[Conan71]

Bain capitalism (financial capitalism) takes money out of the public. It hurts workers. Keep trying....

So we are saying investment doesn't create jobs now?  Berkshire Hathaway doesn't create jobs and hurts workers as well I take it?

[Teatownclown]

So we are saying investment doesn't create jobs now?  Berkshire Hathaway doesn't create jobs and hurts workers as well I take it?

Berkshire does not represent financial capitalism. REAL capitalism is not government welfare for the rich....

Warren does not churn he creates jobs by enhancing value through productivity and efficiency in economies of scale. You do not see Warren buying, cutting, feeing and spinning his companies off to capture a profit.

Keep trying...

[nathanm]

So we are saying investment doesn't create jobs now?  Berkshire Hathaway doesn't create jobs and hurts workers as well I take it?

If that's what TTC was trying to claim, TTC is wrong. Investment clearly can and does create jobs. If it didn't, the economy would never work. However, past a certain point, larger investment appears to only create larger corporate profits. I presume, but do not have the data at hand to support the presumption, that is because much of the so-called investment is actually speculation in the stock market.

[Teatownclown]

If that's what TTC was trying to claim, TTC is wrong. Investment clearly can and does create jobs. If it didn't, the economy would never work. However, past a certain point, larger investment appears to only create larger corporate profits. I presume, but do not have the data at hand to support the presumption, that is because much of the so-called investment is actually speculation in the stock market.

I am not wrong! And definitely not right!

[Conan71]

If that's what TTC was trying to claim, TTC is wrong. Investment clearly can and does create jobs. If it didn't, the economy would never work. However, past a certain point, larger investment appears to only create larger corporate profits. I presume, but do not have the data at hand to support the presumption, that is because much of the so-called investment is actually speculation in the stock market.

And in good economic times, companies usually will plough large profits back into the company and create more jobs.  As we've seen during uncertain times, they are piling up cash rather than reinvesting.  Survival instinct.

[Conan71]

Berkshire does not represent financial capitalism. REAL capitalism is not government welfare for the rich....

Warren does not churn he creates jobs by enhancing value through productivity and efficiency in economies of scale. You do not see Warren buying, cutting, feeing and spinning his companies off to capture a profit.

Keep trying...

You make it sound as if all Bain does is dismantle companies and sell off the pieces for profit.  That's not an accurate representation from someone who purports to being a truth teller.  Secondly, why did you bring up Bain in the first place?  We were talking about investment creating jobs.  I never mentioned Bain.

[Teatownclown]

And in good economic times, companies usually will plough large profits back into the company and create more jobs.  As we've seen during uncertain times, they are piling up cash rather than reinvesting.  Survival instinct.

Wrong again. Warren would be plowing money into potential if he sees some. Problem is the lack of confidence. He doesn't need survival instinct. You'd wake up one morning to see Berkshire bought a company only to say to yourself, "wow, why didn't I see that?"

Bain capitalism is financial capitalism....obviously.

[nathanm]

The chart clearly shows that large profits don't create job growth in proportion no matter whether the economy is in recession or expansion. Profits are correlated with job growth, as is investment, but they are nowhere near the same magnitude. Purely from a fiscal standpoint, reducing capital gains rates to stimulate corporate profit is not the way to create jobs.

FRED is easy to use, you might want to give it a try.