Senator Says Enough to OKC American Indian Museum Funding Requests

[Conan71]

I still think this is a really interesting project/design and hope it gets finished.  Something like this would've been awesome in Tulsa on the river across from downtown but if it sits unfinished I'm glad it's not.  From a Native American history perspective this belongs more in Tulsa, in what was a Creek settlement in the remnants of Indian Territory, than OKC which got its start during the Land Run.

Go back to the first page on this.  According to a few posters, the tribes aren't even very interested in the center.

[nathanm]

From a Native American history perspective this belongs more in Tulsa, in what was a Creek settlement in the remnants of Indian Territory, than OKC which got its start during the Land Run.

What, and have more state money supporting Tulsa's economy? Hell no! Only OKC deserves to grow on the back of all of the state's taxpayers.

[Townsend]

Oklahoma Indian Museum Supporters Remain Hopeful

http://kwgs.com/post/oklahoma-indian-museum-supporters-remain-hopeful

OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — Supporters of a plan to spend $40 million in state money to help complete a Native American museum in Oklahoma City say they're trying to come up with a new way to fund the project after the original proposal stalled before a House deadline.

Oklahoma City Republican Rep. David Dank said Monday one new idea being discussed is a three-year deal for $15 million next year, followed by $15 million in Fiscal Year 2016 and $10 million in 2017.

The Senate earlier this session passed a bill to tap $40 million from the state's Unclaimed Property Fund to match another $40 million in non-state funds to complete the project.

But supporters couldn't get the 51 Republican votes House Speaker Jeff Hickman said he wants for the proposal.

[AquaMan]

A little reality check here. The dang building is practically finished and is languishing along their river(cough). Unless we want the state to suffer the same embarrassment that Tulsa endured with an empty, yet uniquely designed, Eastland Mall for decades, we just need to finish the dang thing, lick our wounds and vow, "never again".

Legislators.......find the money and get it paid for or sell it off to another commercial venture....maybe a casino or something that the Native Americans can really identify with.

[Conan71]

A little reality check here. The dang building is practically finished and is languishing along their river(cough). Unless we want the state to suffer the same embarrassment that Tulsa endured with an empty, yet uniquely designed, Eastland Mall for decades, we just need to finish the dang thing, lick our wounds and vow, "never again".

Legislators.......find the money and get it paid for or sell it off to another commercial venture....maybe a casino or something that the Native Americans can really identify with.

How many "never agains" does that make, now?  And really, not an accurate comparison.  Eastland was a private enterprise which wasn't languishing waiting for taxpayers to pick up the tab.

[AquaMan]

Tons. We keep voting in the same type people, enduring the same authority appointments and ignoring the same criminal behavior. Its our culture I guess.

Private or public the embarrassment is the same. It displays a lack of competence and planning.

[Townsend]

It displays a lack of competence and planning.

..."where the wind comes sweepin' down the plain"

[sgrizzle]

A little reality check here. The dang building is practically finished and is languishing along their river(cough). Unless we want the state to suffer the same embarrassment that Tulsa endured with an empty, yet uniquely designed, Eastland Mall for decades, we just need to finish the dang thing, lick our wounds and vow, "never again".

Legislators.......find the money and get it paid for or sell it off to another commercial venture....maybe a casino or something that the Native Americans can really identify with.

They are asking for almost as much money as it was supposed to cost to build the thing in the first place, and this is their (second?) request to raise the budget.

Not to mention they $40M is contingent on getting another $40M from somewhere else to finish, so we can approve the $40 and be back here next year asking for the other $40.

[Townsend]

They are asking for almost as much money as it was supposed to cost to build the thing in the first place, and this is their (second?) request to raise the budget.

Not to mention they $40M is contingent on getting another $40M from somewhere else to finish, so we can approve the $40 and be back here next year asking for the other $40.

"And the wavin' wheat can sure smell sweet, When the wind comes right behind the raaaaain"

[AquaMan]

During the reign of Tammany Hall in NY, the graft was rampant and accepted as borough business. When asked why it was tolerated, a local responded, "There's good graft and bad graft. Good graft is when you pay your representative to put a sidewalk in front of your business. Bad graft is when he doesn't do it."

They ain't doin' it. Seriously, if they can't finish it for $40, we should put it on the market and recoup our losses. Is that possible?

[Conan71]

Tons. We keep voting in the same type people, enduring the same authority appointments and ignoring the same criminal behavior. Its our culture I guess.

Private or public the embarrassment is the same. It displays a lack of competence and planning.

Your memory of projected growth patterns from that era would be far better than mine.  But, just as an interesting side-bar and nothing more, I was told by someone who had brokerage rights to Eastland when it was still vacant that when planning started on Eastland, projected growth for the city was to the east.  Instead, it shifted south at that time and they could not get a significant number of anchor tenants to sign on or either they bailed.  Instead, they went with Woodland Hills Mall which was in preliminary planning phases at the time and that was what shuttered construction on Eastland for roughly 14 or 15 years.

[Hoss]

Your memory of projected growth patterns from that era would be far better than mine.  But, just as an interesting side-bar and nothing more, I was told by someone who had brokerage rights to Eastland when it was still vacant that when planning started on Eastland, projected growth for the city was to the east.  Instead, it shifted south at that time and they could not get a significant number of anchor tenants to sign on or either they bailed.  Instead, they went with Woodland Hills Mall which was in preliminary planning phases at the time and that was what shuttered construction on Eastland for roughly 14 or 15 years.

Which is why 244 was 8-laned, instead of the BA.  I think had they known that back when the Broken Arrow was being built, they would have put 8 lanes on her.

I remember pretty vividly seeing that out in the middle of nowhere though, when my Dad would take my brother and I out flying RC planes at the Glue Dobber field on 41st/145th East Ave.  We'd pass by it every other Saturday.

[Conan71]

Which is why 244 was 8-laned, instead of the BA.  I think had they known that back when the Broken Arrow was being built, they would have put 8 lanes on her.

I remember pretty vividly seeing that out in the middle of nowhere though, when my Dad would take my brother and I out flying RC planes at the Glue Dobber field on 41st/145th East Ave.  We'd pass by it every other Saturday.

I had friends who lived out that way in the early '80's.  It was weird, it was almost as if Tulsa just stopped right there.  Well it sorta did.  That's all call center now, isn't it?

[heironymouspasparagus]

They were always moving south and east.  Eastland was a pretty feeble attempt to try to balance that.  The big thing they ignored was the fact that John Thomas (Water Commissioner) was preventing any increase in water prices so there was no money for upkeep to the existing system, let alone putting in new infrastructure through the rock zone out east. 

And the biggest part of that was the sewer system to support that new growth - you can dig a narrower ditch through rock for water than sewer.  And you either have to pump that sh$t somewhere or build a plant out there.  Water plant eventually was built, but never a sewer plant.

[AquaMan]

Besides all the other problems detailed, I seem to remember an economic downtown around that time as well (early 80's?) and a disastrous tornado that wrecked a lot of east Tulsa. The combination of bad economy, shrinking support for the area and the explosion of development in and towards Broken Arrow spelled its demise. There were folks at the time who thought it was folly. Lots of hubris in the builder/developer community.

But back to the current folly. Can this "Okie style Big Dig" be salvaged by selling it off? It would make someone a nicely located business and the state could recoup some of its losses as well as new taxes.