Tulsa Harbour

[Teatownclown]

Cue said she did not support the idea to build the amusement park at Turkey Mountain but was open to the idea at other locations, including River West Festival Park area near 23rd Street and Jackson Avenue or near 41st Street and Elwood Avenue, south of the Public Service Company of Oklahoma building

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+1 ( with the caveat that I'm not a big supporter of the government taking broker/ownership roles in private enterprises)

I visualize that Ferris wheel over on the west side by the refinery on 23rd as one looks northeast out onto our skyline as they ride. From here sitting on the east side, it would be more visually attractive than anything else over on the west side.

It would be nice to put them on other TDA land that was Evans above the Brady/OSU campus or the east end...

Who are these developers/users? Jimmy Dejarnette?

[Conan71]

did you know this area they describe is next to the bridge, over old acid pits and not really available for current use? Untouched would be a good description.

I thought they were just drying beds for sewage sludge. Essentially compost heaps.

[ZYX]

The site plan that newson6.com shows does not depict this to be contained to the bottom of the mountain. Seeing the site plan has made me even more against this. "Minimally intrusive"...yeah right!

[shavethewhales]

Also, like people have mentioned, there are a lot of parties involved with this piece of property from River Parks to INCOG to the city, Kaiser, the Master Plan, etc. And to think that these developers would consider this obviously very difficult and "political" area makes me wonder about the depth of their research/thoughs on this project and their thoroughness as business people.  Are they serious people dedicated to the idea, or someone with some "fun" dreams and the money to get some drawings done?

This is a really good point. This fact together with the fact that this project is so big and came out of nowhere make me really pessimistic that it is has legitimate potential. I really, really, really want to see a good amusement park come to Tulsa, but I hope they can utilize a location that won't immediately land them in a political hotseat. It's unfortunate that so many people are trying to compare this project with Frontier City and Bell's, it just goes to show how entertainment starved our community is when they define "amusement park" by these shady examples. Kemah boardwalk down in Houston is a really good example of a classy amusement park/entertainment district done right like this could be.

I didn't know Turkey Mountain had such a vibrant following until today. In some ways this is really good publicity for the park and the hiking/cycling community assuming their park isn't chopped up. I was ecstatic to hear the plans and thought that those opposed were being typical Tulsans at first, but now I'm also somewhat opposed to the location and I hope they can relocate. I'm also planning on actually checking out the trails at TM sometime.

Getting back to the development itself, regardless of location, it looks too idealistic to be true. There's so much retail space and so much lodging. I really doubt that this attraction will become an anchor so fast that these elements will do good business. It seems very much like a "build it and they will come" strategy, which has pretty much never worked, especially here. As far as the amusement/water park goes, the water park is actually much larger than the amusement park judging from the plans. It looks like there are a few roller coasters shoved inbetween the shops and the water park, but the vast majority of the area is taken up by parking, the water park, and the shops.

[dbacks fan]

Not trying to compare Phoenix to Tulsa, but there are some similar places, or a mix of places that might be a good fit for Tulsa. In Phoenix you have http://www.castlesncoasters.com/1CNC/index.html and http://www.golfland.com/mesa/ that are really good draws for amusement parks. Phoenix for years has wanted to get a Six Flags style of park based on the fact that it would be a draw not only from residents, but because of the mild winters, would be a draw during "snowbird" season during the months of October to May. While the three major water parks are closed during that time, Castles and Coasters is open year round. The biggest issue is, that a major park won't locate there because of all of the parks that are in southern California from Six Flags/Magic Mountain to Sea World in San Diego. Even Gaylord Entertainment is hesitant about building in the area. The biggest issue I see, and I grew up in Tulsa, is the fact that Bell's and Big Splash have always had a very limited season, and with the weather in OK for some features of a park you are limited in the time you can operate certain rides. The ideal thing (jmo) would be for someone to open a park that could operate year round, and I really don't think that Turkey Mountain is the place, nor out somewhere between BA and Coweta. Just me, if the area around the west bank between Westport and the 23rdst bridge were are different area it would be an ideal place. I have always thought that area would be a great place for development, but it has been stunted for the last 40 years.

[AquaMan]

Is it not clear why they chose this location?

I drive over this bridge each morning 5 days a week. This is what I see. A huge development at Tulsa Hills, new Medical Clinics, burgeoning Jenks, South Berryhill, easy to drive I-75, Jenks Airport, and  most all of Southwest Tulsa are easily within reach of this location and that's just on the west side of the river. On the East side is the densest population of apartments in the city, the 71st street corridor and high demos of South Tulsa.

I drive over the 23rd street bridge each morning as well. I see, and smell, refineries, lots of tanker trucks coming and going, a concrete plant, lots of cement trucks coming and going, dense subsidized housing, a tie up on Southwest Boulevard, Tulsa Refuse truck center, lots of trash trucks coming and going, Tulsa Public Schools Bus lot, (do I need to say it?),no retail to speak of and a history of failed amusement undertakings.  Good demographics on the east side of the river but difficult for traffic to cross on 66 or 23rd and then negotiate traffic to the RPA lands because of the railroad overpass, the undivided bridge and the tracks themselves.

Don't get me wrong. I love the view from each of these places and my choice would be the land between the river and Public Works, but as far as a development, the Turkey Mtn. site is loads better. It is convenient, unused, is near the part of the river where the Jenks dam will back up and provides another chance at water park development.

The same arguments offered about Turkey have been voiced about development south of 23rd on Westbank as well. I suppose the Blair site will also face them even though it is mostly private. Let the plans be discussed but don't kill it outright.

[OwenParkPhil]

Since (strangely enough?) Mr. Robbie Bell turned up at the public meeting, I suspect he knows more than he's saying to the press. He was probably at the meeting to judge public reaction. That's my opinion (as is all of this post).

If the county won't have anything to do with the Bells; I opine Robbie could be trying to cover his tracks by going through a third party [developer].

I don't think it's an accident Bells has yet to open at the Flea Market and Robbie Bell was attending this meeting. Who likes to move an amusement park twice?

And, I don't think Robbie's attendance at this meeting was about "competition".  Two kiddie rides aren't going to make much money whether or not he has another amusement park to contend with as a competitor.

[AquaMan]

Also, like people have mentioned, there are a lot of parties involved with this piece of property from River Parks to INCOG to the city, Kaiser, the Master Plan, etc. And to think that these developers would consider this obviously very difficult and "political" area makes me wonder about the depth of their research/thoughs on this project and their thoroughness as business people.  Are they serious people dedicated to the idea, or someone with some "fun" dreams and the money to get some drawings done?

One shouldn't demean others peoples hard work with such reasoning. You are surely aware of the difficulty of starting something new from scratch and the myriad of elements at play.

The parties you listed, with the exception of Kaiser, have not exactly excelled at timely, thoughtful, logical, exploitation of the lands under their purview. Political is a good word to describe them all. Without Kaiser's money and stature we would still be running perverts off the paths at Turkey and 41st/Riverside while stumbling over potholes on the bike paths as the river banks eroded under them.

I assure you from the times I met Frisbee, he is a serious real estate player and a thorough man. I am not aware of the other two but when they spoke of the difficulty of working with River Parks Authority I knew they were not naive. My take is that they pretty much bypassed Meyer knowing they weren't well connected enough and he has responded in a typically bureaucratically petty way without regard to all parties interests. That has become the modus operandi of that authority. Heck, any authority.

I saw the same silent development course on the Islands proposals and they were some sharp, thorough business people. The idea just wasn't doable. Whether this plan sucks or not its a lot of work to even get this far. And as far as fitting the scenario of plans for the river, I seem to remember these types of uses were envisioned.

[AquaMan]

Since (strangely enough?) Mr. Robbie Bell turned up at the public meeting, I suspect he knows more than he's saying to the press. He was probably at the meeting to judge public reaction. That's my opinion (as is all of this post).

If the county won't have anything to do with the Bells; I opine Robbie could be trying to cover his tracks by going through a third party [developer].

DeJarnette may have raced at the same Tulsa fairgrounds where Robbie's amusement park was.  They may know each other.

I don't think it's an accident Bells has yet to open at the Flea Market and Robbie Bell was attending this meeting. Who likes to move an amusement park twice?

And, I don't think Robbie's attendance at this meeting was about "competition".  Two kiddie rides aren't going to make much money whether or not he has another amusement park to contend with as a competitor.

As a life-long Tulsan I've learned very little happens in this town by co-incidence, or by accident.

Good insight. I know from as far back as 2006 I was aware of some guys who wanted to build an amusement park over on the West Bank and were trying to get a welder friend of mine to commit funds to it. They had experience in amusement park operation. It never came to anything. If I were considering building one here I would want to include Bell type characters for their first hand knowledge. Even bad experience is experience!

[heironymouspasparagus]

If Robbie wants to do a new amusement park, he should just take over the RiverWalk thing and re-do it.  It already has all the power/utilities he would need, so he can fail just like they did in a place that doesn't mess up an otherwise nature filled area (sort of).  Why keep moving to a new location to trash it out - just rebuild over the previously used area...

[dsjeffries]

Here's the siteplan from KOTV.com:



I'd like to know what they mean by "minimally invasive", since the parking lot, which is bigger than the entire complex, is situated on a steep incline all the way up the hill and all the way north to the brand new trailhead built by GKFF. Maybe they're thinking of a different Turkey Mountain? The view from the east side would be the park followed by a mountain of parking. Wow, stunning.

Story: http://www.newson6.com/story/16977660/proposed-turkey-mountain-amusement-park-draws-opposition-at-tulsa-town-hall

[Weatherdemon]

Here's the siteplan from KOTV.com:



I'd like to know what they mean by "minimally invasive", since the parking lot, which is bigger than the entire complex, is situated on a steep incline all the way up the hill and all the way north to the brand new trailhead built by GKFF. Maybe they're thinking of a different Turkey Mountain? The view from the east side would be the park followed by a mountain of parking. Wow, stunning.

Story: http://www.newson6.com/story/16977660/proposed-turkey-mountain-amusement-park-draws-opposition-at-tulsa-town-hall

Yea, looking at that pic, I have issues.

Yuck.

Move it on north people!
Or, do they not want it on the west bank because of some the ideas on the table for the east side?

[sgrizzle]

A. Move it to 21st
B. Move it to 41st
C. Move the parking lot to the other side of 71st and only develop the flat land at the base of TM

[AquaMan]

I can't tell how far the park extends to the North. It just isn't that clear on the map. Does anyone know if it extends as far North as the current parking lots at the base of the hill?

It seems there is a lot of exaggerated fear being expressed. When people talk about a development as being "Scary" like the quote from Ms Culpepper, I start to be doubtful. No one is promoting defiling Turkey Mountain. BTW, that railroad line is barely used.  

I like C mr. Grizz.

[dsjeffries]

I can't tell how far the park extends to the North. It just isn't that clear on the map. Does anyone know if it extends as far North as the current parking lots at the base of the hill?

I've taken a topographic view of the area and put the siteplan next to it. I've tried to correct for size and put them on an equal scale but it's hard to do with the siteplan because it was a photo taken at an angle and there aren't many other markers on it. But here's my guess, and I don't know how in the world they plan on doing this...