(PROJECT) A Gathering Place For Tulsa

[bacjz00]

Last time owns at QT Park, there were two birthday parties and many families, including mine.

Also, while I would love to see a Children's museum built in Tulsa, I would hate to see it built here.

ZYX, I agree that the addition of QT park was very nice and there are families down there often.  But it is basically a playground, not much more.  People aren't bringing families to Tulsa from surrounding areas (or further) just to go to a playground.  To me, the QT park is very much a local pocket park which serves a definite purpose.

I'm curious why you think that a Children's Museum would be bad for this area?  A Children's Museum would bring LOTS of daily foot traffic and would be just one component of the area so I think it would be a good "anchor" for this park.  Heck as much money as they're talking about spending, we might be able to get 2 or 3 anchors in this park.

Again, just my opinion, but if you want this to be a true gathering place (think the opposite of most other Tulsa parks), you need to have people around all the time and something to keep others moving in and out.  I thnk a family centered museum could be just the thing.  

What other ideas do you have?

[ZYX]

ZYX, I agree that the addition of QT park was very nice and there are families down there often.  But it is basically a playground, not much more.  People aren't bringing families to Tulsa from surrounding areas (or further) just to go to a playground.  To me, the QT park is very much a local pocket park which serves a definite purpose.

I'm curious why you think that a Children's Museum would be bad for this area?  A Children's Museum would bring LOTS of daily foot traffic and would be just one component of the area so I think it would be a good "anchor" for this park.  Heck as much money as they're talking about spending, we might be able to get 2 or 3 anchors in this park.

Again, just my opinion, but if you want this to be a true gathering place (think the opposite of most other Tulsa parks), you need to have people around all the time and something to keep others moving in and out.  I thnk a family centered museum could be just the thing.  

What other ideas do you have?

The largest reason I have for not including a world-class children's museum, as much as I would love to have one built in Tulsa, is the large amount of parking it would require, in addition to the large amount of parking the park itself will most likely require. Besides, I don't see that flying well with the surrounding neighborhood.

As for more ideas about the park, I would love to see the whitewater park incorporated in it, along with something more attractive and higher quality and density in place of Crow Creek. For the area that would be designated to be strictly park land, I would like to see a truly world-class, highly interactive park. I would love to see dancing fountains, large trees strategically placed, several innovative and modern sculptures. Basically, like you have said, something that has never been done before in Tulsa. I would prefer the children's museum to go on the west bank (I know how much you love that idea ) where I would like to see another park, with more development behind it and some fronting the river.

I think there is a huge opportunity to create something truly stunning. Mr. Kaiser and his affiliates have gifted us many wonderful things before. I sure do not think this will disappoint.

P.S., I have an a session with parks. If there was one thing that I want Tulsa to be nationally known for, it would be for its beautiful and numerous parks. I hope that some day in the future this can happen.

[bacjz00]

Well I see that you have a good memory of my posts regarding west bank development.    I will politely disagree with your notion of placing anything "destination" worthy on the west bank.  While I don't disagree with your point on parking, I would much rather see a Children's Museum placed in the Brady District before I'd want to see it on the west bank of the river there.

And all due respect ZYX, but how do you expect fountains (even interactive ones) and sculptures to bring thousands of people to this park every day?  We need to showcase this park by having a community-spirited anchor on this site.  I don't know how the parking gets pulled off, but I'm not here to architect it, I'm just trying to figure out a way to truly re-magnetize this portion of Tulsa, not only to its residents but also to visitors.

[ZYX]

Well I see that you have a good memory of my posts regarding west bank development.    I will politely disagree with your notion of placing anything "destination" worthy on the west bank.  While I don't disagree with your point on parking, I would much rather see a Children's Museum placed in the Brady District before I'd want to see it on the west bank of the river there.

And all due respect ZYX, but how do you expect fountains (even interactive ones) and sculptures to bring thousands of people to this park every day?  We need to showcase this park by having a community-spirited anchor on this site.  I don't know how the parking gets pulled off, but I'm not here to architect it, I'm just trying to figure out a way to truly re-magnetize this portion of Tulsa, not only to its residents but also to visitors.

I question whether there is enough room here to make it a magnet area. Maybe there is. Maybe something like a children's museum would do the trick, although I believe the parking would have to be underground.

You and I have argued this issue before, and I don't think we will ever agree on it. Perhaps we need to agree to disagree. I guess "hate" in one of my previous posts was a strong word. I wouldn't hate for the children's museum to be located here, I just don't believe that it is the best spot. I just don't think something like it would blend well with the surrounding neighborhood.

[TheArtist]

  One idea for parking might be something like that one plan where Riverside Drive was curved up around the Blair property.  But instead of that being Riverside Drive, keep Riverside or change it a bit, but the side/back road that took you around the Blair Property and even towards Crow Creek, have parallel parking aaaall along it.  That would preclude you having to have one or several large gaping hole type parking lots, but would give you a long narrow one something like Woodward park without a significant gap in greenery and even the tree canopy can reach out and over it keeping it feeling more cozy and park like.

Childrens museum... my first preference would be to have it downtown like in the Brady District, but,,, if it were in this area by the River you could expand the museum right out into the park and down to the river itself to include all kinds of "nature/environmental/conservation" learning features.  I have seen some really neat ideas done that way.

[carltonplace]

Well I see that you have a good memory of my posts regarding west bank development.   I will politely disagree with your notion of placing anything "destination" worthy on the west bank.  While I don't disagree with your point on parking, I would much rather see a Children's Museum placed in the Brady District before I'd want to see it on the west bank of the river there.

And all due respect ZYX, but how do you expect fountains (even interactive ones) and sculptures to bring thousands of people to this park every day?  We need to showcase this park by having a community-spirited anchor on this site.  I don't know how the parking gets pulled off, but I'm not here to architect it, I'm just trying to figure out a way to truly re-magnetize this portion of Tulsa, not only to its residents but also to visitors.

Why not a destination on the west bank? The infrastructure to support it is already there, close access to US75, I44/244 on Southwest Boulevard, train tracks for transit and it's under developed? Both the city yard and the cement factory need to put to better use and development could be a catalyst for improvements on 21st and on Southwest Blvd/Route 66.

[Conan71]

Someone needs to remind the owner of the concrete plant it's not worth $50 mil.

[carltonplace]

Someone needs to remind the owner of the concrete plant it's not worth $50 mil.

true

[bacjz00]

Why not a destination on the west bank? The infrastructure to support it is already there, close access to US75, I44/244 on Southwest Boulevard, train tracks for transit and it's under developed? Both the city yard and the cement factory need to put to better use and development could be a catalyst for improvements on 21st and on Southwest Blvd/Route 66.

I'd buy in to this if we threw enough money at it and did more than just "one thing" over there.  Tulsa has already messed up a little bit by not developing (or encouraging more development) in a single focused area.  The Brady District, Blue Dome, Greenwood, BOK Center, Sobo, Cherry Street, Brookside, Utica Square...these aren't "districts", they're small and mostly over before they ever begin.  Where's the destination?

Sorry highway access is a tough sell for me...rail....that's visionary for sure, and I'd buy into that if someone would create something more than another park over there.  It would need to be something BIG...VERY BIG.

[rdj]

I'd like to see the east bank of the river remain a "locals" spot.  By that I mean, not developed as a tourist attraction that requires lots of parking, but rather a place that people walk, bike or use mass transit to get to.

I think the west bank (23rd north) and the west bank in the Jenks area should be the tourist spots.

Look at how much parking the Oklahoma Aquarium has, that would take up nearly the entire lawn of the Blair Mansion!

[Red Arrow]

I but rather a place that people walk, bike or use mass transit to get to.

Kind of like the Trolley parks in the late 19th and early 20th centuries?

[Conan71]

I'd buy in to this if we threw enough money at it and did more than just "one thing" over there.  Tulsa has already messed up a little bit by not developing (or encouraging more development) in a single focused area.  The Brady District, Blue Dome, Greenwood, BOK Center, Sobo, Cherry Street, Brookside, Utica Square...these aren't "districts", they're small and mostly over before they ever begin.  Where's the destination?

Sorry highway access is a tough sell for me...rail....that's visionary for sure, and I'd buy into that if someone would create something more than another park over there.  It would need to be something BIG...VERY BIG.

Not sure where you are going with that and maybe I'm misunderstanding your point, but you really can't focus all entertainment into one area in a city the size of Tulsa.  Not with our car-driving culture.

Districts generally aren't usually more than a few blocks long or wide in any city.

[Jonette2]

I don't know how to quote this properly, but it was posted earlier in this topic.

It would seem this would have to be a very long ranged endeavor.
If I remember correctly... one of the terms of the "sale" of the Blair property was that the current owner/resident, could maintain residence and use of the property for the remainder of his life.


WOW, I WISH SOMEONE WOULD PAY ME FOR MY HOUSE AND "LET" ME LIVE IN IT FREE AND INDEFINATELY !!!

[Red Arrow]

WOW, I WISH SOMEONE WOULD PAY ME FOR MY HOUSE AND "LET" ME LIVE IN IT FREE AND INDEFINATELY !!!

A reverse mortgage is probably as close as most of us will get.

[sgrizzle]

I don't know how to quote this properly, but it was posted earlier in this topic.

It would seem this would have to be a very long ranged endeavor.
If I remember correctly... one of the terms of the "sale" of the Blair property was that the current owner/resident, could maintain residence and use of the property for the remainder of his life.


WOW, I WISH SOMEONE WOULD PAY ME FOR MY HOUSE AND "LET" ME LIVE IN IT FREE AND INDEFINATELY !!!

Not for the remainder of his life, but for awhile.