A Water Shed Day

[swake]

If you are a registered Democrat in Oklahoma you basically already have registered as "No Party"

[heironymouspasparagus]

Conan,
I did the same thing only D because at the time, they were the only ones that had primaries.  In recent years, I have been thinking seriously about changing to R to get some choices in the primaries that might make a little bit of difference.  Except the hijacking of the R is so complete in this state that it seems to be futile - as evidenced by your action today.

Both D and R have become so "buy out" oriented - as in who can they get to buy them out - it is very tough to thread our way through the maze of what these guys really are up to.  What it all seems to boil down to is grabbing what they can, so they are ok, then it doesn't really matter what happens to the rest of us.

[Conan71]

What it all seems to boil down to is grabbing what they can, so they are ok, then it doesn't really matter what happens to the rest of us.

Threadwinner!

I kept making excuse after excuse to not change affiliation and the reason you stated for wanting to register R is precisely why I hadn't done this a few years back.  You definitely have more power as a voter being able to vote in Republican primaries in Oklahoma, for sure.  I've made this public (here and FB) for no other reason than I'm hoping other disenfranchised moderates will begin to see they might have power if they band together.  Look at what a rag-tag disorganized group like the Tea Party accomplished in terms of pushing their agenda.  The main problem I've got with the Tea Party is they are so damn interwoven with the Christian fundies it's made any of their policy issues hard for me to get on board with simply because I look at standard-bearers like Michelle Bachmann and I'm put off by the movement.  The Occupy Movement is hardly independent, they are interwoven in with far left ideology, yet they've commanded a lot of media attention.

Personally, I feel like a 60%'er (the 60% who do not identify as deeply conservative or deeply liberal).  I hear of the big conservative talk show entertainers calling social liberals like myself faux conservatives.  Really?  I think people who pander to the deeply religious segment of the party to get the emotional vote and who preach fiscal conservatism to people like me but continually vote for big government programs, more government spending and plum contracts for their wealthy and powerful constituents are repugnant.

I agree very much with what The Artist said in his earlier post, that having a D or R seems to automatically peg you instantly as either conservative or liberal.  If I post on Tim Gilpin's FB wall when he's on one of his deeply liberal rants, it never fails, someone starts in about how I get my talking points from Glen Beck or Limpbag which couldn't be further from the truth.

For those of us who are put off by deeply partisan politics, we need to start looking past our differences and focusing on our similarities.  That's how the political scene and society could return to normalcy.  We are constantly inundated with reminders of how we are all different.  I'm white, she's black, he's yellow, she's Hispanic.  I'm Anglo, that person is Creek Indian.  Hell, we are all humans before we have any other sort of tribal identity.  Differences are costing us as a nation.

I give you a lot of smile as there's some things you say on here which just blow my mind, yet, I suspect there's probably 20% of your overall ideology I'd disagree with which means there's probably 80% of common interests there.  I've gotten to know every regular poster on here on somewhat of a  personal basis via forum lunches, happy hours, etc.  They've been guests in my home and I in theirs.  Even though some of them have completely different political views, what I have in common with them far outweighs what I don't.

I had intended to simply get a haircut after lunch, but my guy near 15th & Lewis wasn't in and wouldn't be for 1/2 an hour.  I thought "How to kill half an hour?  Time to quit talking about it and time to do it."  On my way to the election board, I thought of "St. Ronald's" words:  "I didn't leave the Democratic Party, it left me."  I suspect he might be thinking along those lines if he saw what the GOP has morphed into by bastardizing his concepts into something he wouldn't recognize.  It's said he always regretted his deficit spending, but he was left with little choice.

I joined the Republican Party prior to voting in the 1984 elections when I was 18 and a freshman at OSU.  The reason I chose Republican?  President Reagan, in my mind, had gone a long way in not only turning the economic fortunes of the country around, but he had lifted the spirits of most Americans.  To many my age at the time, he also seemed human enough that he could have been anyone's grandfather.

If anyone thinks I'm going a bit far with my esteem of him as a great uniter and communicator, explain the utter shellacking he gave Walter Mondale in the landslide of '84.  What did Mondale get? 14 electoral votes or something like that.  I think he got Minnesota and D.C.  It's unfortunate his legacy was tainted by some of his appointees with Iran-Contra and some other issues.  If anything, he at least gave us the sort of morale boost we needed in the 1980's.

As for me, I don't like who is representing the Republican party these days and I no longer like what the party represents.

[nathanm]

If anyone thinks I'm going a bit far with my esteem of him as a great uniter and communicator, explain the utter shellacking he gave Walter Mondale in the landslide of '84.  What did Mondale get? 14 electoral votes or something like that.  I think he got Minnesota and D.C.  It's unfortunate his legacy was tainted by some of his appointees with Iran-Contra and some other issues.  If anything, he at least gave us the sort of morale boost we needed in the 1980's.

Normally I would launch into one of my Reagan tirades, but you've made me realize that it's water under the bridge. The past can't be undone, so all we can do is move forward from where we are. I agree that most of us have many goals and ideas in common, and working together on those would definitely be an improvement over the status quo. It's just hard to agree to disagree on the points we disagree about for long enough to see any of our common will be done in this hyperpartisan environment.

[Teatownclown]

So you cut in run instead of working within' to change it? Shameful!

[heironymouspasparagus]

So you cut in run instead of working within' to change it? Shameful!

Not at all.  He can work to change by not being registered R.  And probably be at least if not more effective.

It has been a long time since I went to any (political) party meetings (D) - at that time, for both D and R it was strictly a self-congratulatory festival involving lots positive reinforcement of the accepted dogma.  No room whatsoever for any independent thought or questioning of ideas, let alone ideals.  Wow, now that I re-read, it sounds a lot like some of the church's I have been to...  If you were one of the whales - big contributor - then your ideas were the ones that were acceptable. 

Outside the formal party structure, he can comment without being associated with the failed policies that naturally adhere to membership in either - that "guilt by association" label attached because one is either R or D.  And posting here (and wherever else - FB?), likely to reach a much wider audience to try to influence.

Overall, very constructive move.  I probably should do the same....

[Conan71]

So you cut in run instead of working within' to change it? Shameful!

The only way you change the outcome of a popularity contest is getting the contestants to realize their base of support is dwindling.  Clearly elected officials and those crafting party platforms have miscalculated that the majority of Republicans desire legislated morality and a new tax cut and new debt at every turn.  I think many sit by silently in disgust.  As long as the rolls are staying roughly the same or incrementally-growing every year, they assume all the party members are in lockstep.  If they see a mass exodus, then they have to finally ask why.

Sorry, can't be associated with such backwardass thinking and medieval logic, not good for the soul.

And again, it doesn't stop here.  There's a letter being drafted to the Tulsa County and Oklahoma GOP party leadership,  our national delegation, and (R) state legislators.

They can either consider that my frustration reflects that of many or I'm a lone disaffected nut.  If they choose to ignore people like me, they do so at their own peril of job security.

[AquaMan]

Isn't that where leadership comes in? My view of leadership is not what is generally taught in "leadership courses" where status quo and conformity are preached. That is administrative/directorial leadership which was exhibited by the Italian captain. Yeh, he's the leader till something goes wrong. It creates forgettable mayors and ineffective legislators.

Exceptional leadership is exhibited by those who espouse what is usually not the most popular view, but the most reasonable and well thought out and held with conviction regardless of the prevailing views. It explains how the fuhrer rose to power, but also how Reagan commandeered his party. Right or wrong, the leadership of the Republican party now is poll driven, administrative type leadership. Which is no leadership at all during critical times. I'm not picking on just one party, its a currently accepted behavior in all organizations right now that real leaders are castigated, marginalized and often punished. It takes guts to stand up to it. I think guys like Christie recognize that and are committed to working from the inside rather than compromising their beliefs to get the nomination.

Leaving ones party is tantamount to passive aggressive tactics (when they see their ranks diminishing, they'll reform). I never saw you as a passive aggressive Conan. I understand your disgust but its guys like you who could reform the party.

[Conan71]

Isn't that where leadership comes in? My view of leadership is not what is generally taught in "leadership courses" where status quo and conformity are preached. That is administrative/directorial leadership which was exhibited by the Italian captain. Yeh, he's the leader till something goes wrong. It creates forgettable mayors and ineffective legislators.

Exceptional leadership is exhibited by those who espouse what is usually not the most popular view, but the most reasonable and well thought out and held with conviction regardless of the prevailing views. It explains how the fuhrer rose to power, but also how Reagan commandeered his party. Right or wrong, the leadership of the Republican party now is poll driven, administrative type leadership. Which is no leadership at all during critical times. I'm not picking on just one party, its a currently accepted behavior in all organizations right now that real leaders are castigated, marginalized and often punished. It takes guts to stand up to it. I think guys like Christie recognize that and are committed to working from the inside rather than compromising their beliefs to get the nomination.

Leaving ones party is tantamount to passive aggressive tactics (when they see their ranks diminishing, they'll reform). I never saw you as a passive aggressive Conan. I understand your disgust but its guys like you who could reform the party.

You could interpret it as P/A behavior.  You could also view it as removing a base they blindly depend on one brick at at time.  Interesting, I was just responding to a post on FB by a friend of mine who did the same thing I did a few weeks ago, unbeknownst to me until this morning.

Specifically, we are getting stupid religion-based statement legislation in the OK legislature primarily because the mouth-breathers in OKC believe all Republicans want it that way.  I can make a statement away from the party and as I said, I intend to foment change by letting them know why they can depend more and more on thinking Republicans to start leaving the party.  Certainly I've given up the right at the polls to try and vote better candidates in the primaries.  Perhaps more free-thinking IND's will start running for the legislature.  It's hard to get traction with IND on the national level, but much easier on the state and local level.

I've thought more and more what the last big push was that made my mind up.  Governor Fallin promising another income tax cut, then learning we face a $46mm shortfall due to tax credits given for new oil drilling activity in the state.  Governor Fallin says personal income tax cuts will attract new business.  I don't see how it can when the legislature is bent on authoring and passing legislation which makes Oklahoma look more like Victorian England every day.

I don't want my name associated with that sort of mentality.

[Townsend]

I don't want my name associated with that sort of mentality.

Until they're gone or we move out of state, we will be associated with it.

"You live in Oklahoma?  What the Hell is wrong with you guys?"

[heironymouspasparagus]

Until they're gone or we move out of state, we will be associated with it.

"You live in Oklahoma?  What the Hell is wrong with you guys?"

Or we start voting them out instead of continuing the same old stuff....

[Townsend]

Or we start voting them out instead of continuing the same old stuff....

Tried to cover that under the "until they're gone".

[AquaMan]

I'm afraid we're in this for at least a decade. Its not just us. Virginia wants women who are considering abortion to have transverse vaginal ultrasounds, not because of a doctors suggestion, but for political reasons. I suppose if they wanted to watch it all on youtube they could legislate that as well and still get re-elected. This kind of craziness is like the influenza. Widespread and treatable but its too late for the flu shots. It just has to run its course.

[patric]

It just has to run its course.

Kinda like the far-right nationalists did in 1920's Germany?

[nathanm]

Virginia wants women who are considering abortion to have transverse vaginal ultrasounds

That's not really much different than our existing ultrasound law, unless I'm remembering it incorrectly.