Why are we in Afghanistan?

[Hoss]

They are killing us out of hatred.  We are killing them out of hatred.

There is no sanity on either side of this conflict.

The reason we were there is gone.

Pack up and leave them to their own devices.

We don't agree on much if anything.

This, we do however.  Time to get out.  Now.  Expedite.

[heironymouspasparagus]

They are killing us out of hatred.  We are killing them out of hatred.

There is no sanity on either side of this conflict.

The reason we were there is gone.

Pack up and leave them to their own devices.

And the second part of my comment.... what kind of country have we become where we put our kids into the situation where they become so broken to do this kind of thing?  This is a lot like My Lai.  Over and over again.

[we vs us]

The news said the guy who allegedly did this was on his 4th tour.  3 in Iraq and now in his first in Afghanistan.  That certainly doesn't excuse his appalling crimes, but definitely provides some perspective on what we've demanded of our soldiers to date.

Every conflict seems to have its My Lai moment.  The confluence of atrocity and utter PR collapse.  Iraq's moment was at Abu Ghraib, and this may end up being Afghanistan's, though I think we might have a couple of good options to choose from.  Either way, this seems to me to be a major emphasis point.  We're definitely leaving, and soon.  Maybe sooner than we imagined. 

[AquaMan]

What are the arguments for staying and who is making them?

We need to get out quickly and get these guys some good psych treatment.

[swake]

Time for us to go. Now

[Conan71]

I understand the sentiment to leave now and I mostly agree.  However, with the two parting memories of the burning Qurans and now this incident, is that really how we want to leave it so that the Karzai government can be influenced by the Taliban and AlQaeda forces still in the area that they should back any and all retaliation around the globe against the U.S. and U.S. interests?

[carltonplace]

The details on this are going to get worse; eyewitnesses are saying this was not the work of a single soldier.

[we vs us]

I understand the sentiment to leave now and I mostly agree.  However, with the two parting memories of the burning Qurans and now this incident, is that really how we want to leave it so that the Karzai government can be influenced by the Taliban and AlQaeda forces still in the area that they should back any and all retaliation around the globe against the U.S. and U.S. interests?

In a "normal" situation I'd agree with you, but things may be unsalvageable.  We're slaughtering civilians, desecrating their corpses, destroying their holy books.  This also doesn't begin to address the issue of drone strikes, which have (quietly) been killing not only al qaeda and Taliban leaders but also taking out their families and innocent bystanders, too. 

War's hell, that's a fact, but it's increasingly a global expectation that we isolate the combatants from civilians even more.

[Gaspar]

I understand the sentiment to leave now and I mostly agree.  However, with the two parting memories of the burning Qurans and now this incident, is that really how we want to leave it so that the Karzai government can be influenced by the Taliban and AlQaeda forces still in the area that they should back any and all retaliation around the globe against the U.S. and U.S. interests?

We went in with a purpose.  Once our purpose was complete, it was our responsibility to leave an infrastructure the people would be able to defend.  THEIR responsibility was to help and assist us in stabilizing their own country.  THEY have failed.  We have done our duty.  We have lived up to our obligations.  We need to go now.  Our differences are far to great to be able to work together. Or continued presence can do no good.  

[Conan71]

No, I don't care to be in Afghanistan for one more day either.

I'm simply making the point that this is not like a humbled Japan who will eventually become our ally after we killed 250,000 or so Japanese civilians in two strikes.  

I usually am very reluctant to be critical of U.S. service people, but the acts of this gunman (or gunmen) has put the life of every American around the globe in potential danger for years to come.  These aren't the sort of people to forgive and forget.  Instability in the Middle East has many negative implications.  I think I'm just stunned that we are finally at a point of realizing the pull out plans and smile like the Quran BBQ and random slaughter of 16 civilians can possibly wipe out any PR gains we may have made in the region.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Write your representatives.  In ink (or crayon - whichever is most appropriate), by hand to have the most effect.

[patric]

The news said the guy who allegedly did this was on his 4th tour.  3 in Iraq and now in his first in Afghanistan.  That certainly doesn't excuse his appalling crimes, but definitely provides some perspective on what we've demanded of our soldiers to date.

Although this is from Iraq rather than Afghanistan, this provides a chilling glimpse of the midset we're dealing with:

 

It's one of the pieces of video our former Tulsan Bradley Manning is accused of leaking.  But in the end, would we have preferred to remain blissfully ignorant of things like this?

[Gaspar]

No, I don't care to be in Afghanistan for one more day either.

I think I'm just stunned that we are finally at a point of realizing the pull out plans and smile like the Quran BBQ and random slaughter of 16 civilians can possibly wipe out any PR gains we may have made in the region.

Japan is our ally because we defeated them.  We were willing to bear our claws and use our teeth back then.  We are no longer capable of victory in war because our populous is not willing to fully engage the horrible and ugly idea of war.  We view every conflict as a police action now.  We have to make up politically correct names for traveling to a foreign land and getting shot at.  THERE IS NO WAR, so how can we win?

I don't think we need to be police any more.  If we are attacked, our response should be utter destruction. We don't need to send our young away to die, or go nuts trying to fight an enemy that fires at them freely, as they process a check-list and request permission to fire back.  Soldiers don't need to crouch in their tents watching their president on CNN apologize as the city burns around them and their brothers are slaughtered.

I used to be critical of President Clinton lobbing bombs from thousands of miles away, but he was smart.  Sure, you can't win a war unless you have boots on the ground, but now that we've turned war into bureaucracy and politics, we can't win one anyway. 

We should come home, and spend our military money developing the most sophisticated and horrifying deterrents.  Attacking United States should be the most ridiculous idea that anyone could ever think of.  We need to be a pillar of strength, a valuable ally, and an unthinkable enemy.

If someone launches an attack on the US or our allies, we should send them a form letter:

Dear ____,
You have attacked a vital US interest/ally.  In 24 hours your city of ________ will cease to exist. 
Please take the necessary steps to evacuate your people. 
We are happy to accept your letter of surrender, however there will be no negotiation. 


Thank you and have a nice day.
President of The United States of America

P.S. If you intend to retaliate, you will want to also evacuate the city of _______.


None of this. . . "We're so sorry we burned your books, we just don't know what got into us.  We hope the slaughter of our soldiers makes up for this.  Don't worry, we won't come after you for that, we know those were pretty important books."
 

[Townsend]

If someone launches an attack on the US or our allies, we should send them a form letter:

Dear ____,
You have attacked a vital US interest/ally.  In 24 hours your city of ________ will cease to exist. 
Please take the necessary steps to evacuate your people. 
We are happy to accept your letter of surrender, however there will be no negotiation. 


Thank you and have a nice day.
President of The United States of America

P.S. If you intend to retaliate, you will want to also evacuate the city of _______.

That  might work if we were attacked by a country instead of the Afghani version of the 700 club.

[Gaspar]

That  might work if we were attacked by a country instead of the Afghani version of the 700 club.

Mountains?  What mountains?