"If I had a son, he’d look like Trayvon."

[heironymouspasparagus]

Serve and protect. I guess you don't recall just last week when a cell phone call at 36th and Riverside may have saved a woman. Yes, the police got there in time.

So, you don't believe the NRA has been the force behind SYG?

I believe absolutely that the NRA is the single most effective force in the country for the protection of the Second Amendment, and by extension, at least a few of the others.  ACLU does a good job of helping on the others, too - I'm a big fan of them, too.

And yes, they are the leaders of the effort to allow law-abiding citizens to KEEP their inalienable, God-given rights, some of which are defined in the US Constitution - leading to good, solid, common-sense laws that protect those same citizens when they use their right of self-defense.  Laws such as concealed carry, and the stand your ground laws.  These laws have lead to incontrovertible evidence - proof beyond any reasonable doubt - that crime does go down when people have the means to defend themselves.  And the experience of some 'other' countries - specifically, UK, Australia, that crime skyrockets when criminals know beyond a doubt that law abiding citizens will NOT have a firearm to defend themselves with.

And while I don't always agree with all their recommendations regarding the election of politicians - they recommend Jim Inhofe, for example - any REAL, patriotic, American would - Join the NRA!!  Lifetime membership!

But only if you value your freedoms and liberty as an American.  But hey, if you don't care about that, then just continue to coast down that big river of life with no
thought about those who are fundamentally trying to end those same freedoms.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Good point. There is no statute of limitations on murder in at least some states. What would be worse than standing trial for manslaughter or murder after killing your assailant? Standing trial 15 years later when a new prosecuting attorney gets a wild hair.

Exactly.  That's one reason you always see a cop get a hearing of some sort.  guido may be able to help us with that, but it is my understanding that it can be something similar to a grand jury finding?  I would want a formal "not guilty" ruling.

[Teatownclown]

I believe absolutely that the NRA is the single most effective force in the country for the protection of the Second Amendment, and by extension, at least a few of the others.  ACLU does a good job of helping on the others, too - I'm a big fan of them, too.

And yes, they are the leaders of the effort to allow law-abiding citizens to KEEP their inalienable, God-given rights, some of which are defined in the US Constitution - leading to good, solid, common-sense laws that protect those same citizens when they use their right of self-defense.  Laws such as concealed carry, and the stand your ground laws.  These laws have lead to incontrovertible evidence - proof beyond any reasonable doubt - that crime does go down when people have the means to defend themselves.  And the experience of some 'other' countries - specifically, UK, Australia, that crime skyrockets when criminals know beyond a doubt that law abiding citizens will NOT have a firearm to defend themselves with.

And while I don't always agree with all their recommendations regarding the election of politicians - they recommend Jim Inhofe, for example - any REAL, patriotic, American would - Join the NRA!!  Lifetime membership!

But only if you value your freedoms and liberty as an American.  But hey, if you don't care about that, then just continue to coast down that big river of life with no
thought about those who are fundamentally trying to end those same freedoms.

Who are THOSE you so FEAR ending your FREEDOMS? That sh!t is getting old. Guess it depends what priorities are in your list of FREEDOMS...

[nathanm]

And while I don't always agree with all their recommendations regarding the election of politicians - they recommend Jim Inhofe, for example - any REAL, patriotic, American would - Join the NRA!!  Lifetime membership!

I agree with their mission, but I don't agree with the extremes they go to with it. Nor do I really appreciate their always funding the Republican even when the Democrat is equally against gun control.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Who are THOSE you so FEAR ending your FREEDOMS? That sh!t is getting old. Guess it depends what priorities are in your list of FREEDOMS...

LWRE and RWRE.  You aren't??  I thought there was more mental horsepower there....


What priorities are on your list of freedoms??  Am I to presume the Constitution and the Bill of Rights aren't that big a deal to you?

[heironymouspasparagus]

I agree with their mission, but I don't agree with the extremes they go to with it. Nor do I really appreciate their always funding the Republican even when the Democrat is equally against gun control.

They support Dan Boren.  They recommended Andrew Rice (and Inhofe...go figure - obviously the result of some computer automated scoring/response).

Most Oklahoma Democrats are against gun control, so quite a few of them are on the "good list".  Brad Henry was there.

Harry Reid got an endorsement from them.  He was the prime mover in changing the laws regarding carrying a firearm in the national parks.  Big win!!  Excellent concept.

They are occasionally a little strident.  But then again, in this world, it is the loudest, most obnoxious screamer who gets the points.  i.e. Limbaugh, Hannity, Rove, Coulter, O'Reilly, et al.

[Breadburner]

Who are THOSE you so FEAR ending your FREEDOMS? That sh!t is getting old. Guess it depends what priorities are in your list of FREEDOMS...

Talk about smile getting old..How bout your drivel....

[Gaspar]

LWRE and RWRE.  You aren't??  I thought there was more mental horsepower there....


What priorities are on your list of freedoms??  Am I to presume the Constitution and the Bill of Rights aren't that big a deal to you?

Stick around long enough to see him shortcircuit again and you will figure it out.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Stick around long enough to see him shortcircuit again and you will figure it out.

I read his posts.

Some of his writings have nuggets of value - that's why I made the comment about the mental horsepower...

This is one thing that truly puzzles me - how people who nominally support people's rights and the value of the individual, and society of humans, over the artificial construct of a corporation, or any of the other non-human tools we have built to create more efficiency or ease our lives as people, would be anything other than rabid supporters of the gamut of what the founders said were God given, inalienable human rights.  But so many then turn around and issue these 'mouthings' about how a firearm - the single most effective instrument of self defense, and in particular hand guns - are somehow to blame for anything.  It is a schizoid disconnect with reality.  (Ooops, maybe I should use the 'politically correct' term of bipolar disorder?)

[Gaspar]

I read his posts.

Some of his writings have nuggets of value - that's why I made the comment about the mental horsepower...

This is one thing that truly puzzles me - how people who nominally support people's rights and the value of the individual, and society of humans, over the artificial construct of a corporation, or any of the other non-human tools we have built to create more efficiency or ease our lives as people, would be anything other than rabid supporters of the gamut of what the founders said were God given, inalienable human rights.  But so many then turn around and issue these 'mouthings' about how a firearm - the single most effective instrument of self defense, and in particular hand guns - are somehow to blame for anything.  It is a schizoid disconnect with reality.  (Ooops, maybe I should use the 'politically correct' term of bipolar disorder?)

That's easy.  It's physics applied to politics.
A powerful entity can easily overcome a weak entity through force. 
Tea's political philosophy is based on the application of force to promote equality through redistribution. 

When the people are allowed to arm themselves, the playing field becomes more level.  Rights suddenly become defendable and there is little difference between a 200lb man and a 98lb woman. 

Guns and laws that protect their use threaten the ultimate goals of those who's political aims are to take from those who have and give to those who do not.  The application of force is very difficult when applied to an armed populous.

Ordinary citizens don't need guns, as their having guns doesn't serve the State. – Heinrich Himmler

Armed people are free. No state can control those who have the machinery and the will to resist, no mob can take their liberty and property. And no 220-pound thug can threaten the well-being or dignity of a 110-pound woman who has two pounds of iron to even things out ... People who object to weapons aren't abolishing violence, they're begging for rule by brute force, when the biggest, strongest animals among men were always automatically "right." Guns ended that, and a social democracy is a hollow farce without an armed populace to make it work. – L. Neil Smith



.

[Conan71]

The law is on your side even without SYG in your second hypothetical. The castle doctrine covers the situation just fine.

As I said earlier, I think that if you kill someone, you should stand trial. I don't think that laws that make it less of a hassle to kill other human beings are really the right way to go. As I said earlier, I'm also strongly in favor of better funding for PDs offices so that it isn't in fact an expensive proposition. Moreover, the hassle factor will hopefully cause some people to choose to retreat instead of killing others. I think that's an unmitigated good thing. Yeah, it sucks, but at least you're alive to tell your tale, no?

Oh, and again, unless the witnesses are lying, Martin was absolutely not on top of Zimmerman at the time he was shot. In fact, the witnesses stated that Zimmerman was on top of (the face down) Martin within a few seconds of the gunshot.

As a pure matter of liberty, one should not have to worry about the time and expense of a trial for defending themselves at any locale.  SYG has not resulted in a huge wave of vigilantism.  The castle doctrine does nothing for you if you get attacked in a parking lot away from your residence.

For someone who thought having to get a prescription for Sudafed was a restriction on liberty, I'm pretty surprised you think having to go to trial for self defense is a great idea.

[we vs us]

That's easy.  It's physics applied to politics.
A powerful entity can easily overcome a weak entity through force. 
Tea's political philosophy is based on the application of force to promote equality through redistribution. 

When the people are allowed to arm themselves, the playing field becomes more level.  Rights suddenly become defendable and there is little difference between a 200lb man and a 98lb woman. 

Guns and laws that protect their use threaten the ultimate goals of those who's political aims are to take from those who have and give to those who do not.  The application of force is very difficult when applied to an armed populous.

Ordinary citizens don't need guns, as their having guns doesn't serve the State. – Heinrich Himmler

Armed people are free. No state can control those who have the machinery and the will to resist, no mob can take their liberty and property. And no 220-pound thug can threaten the well-being or dignity of a 110-pound woman who has two pounds of iron to even things out ... People who object to weapons aren't abolishing violence, they're begging for rule by brute force, when the biggest, strongest animals among men were always automatically "right." Guns ended that, and a social democracy is a hollow farce without an armed populace to make it work. – L. Neil Smith



.

The people have been outgunned by the state for a couple of generations.  Expecting the citizenry to counterbalance the most advanced military in the history of the world with their handguns and hunting rifles and occasionally jury-rigged full-auto assault rifle is just . . . well, humorous. 

[erfalf]

The people have been outgunned by the state for a couple of generations.  Expecting the citizenry to counterbalance the most advanced military in the history of the world with their handguns and hunting rifles and occasionally jury-rigged full-auto assault rifle is just . . . well, humorous. 

Who do you think is manning the machinery for the government? Robots?

[RecycleMichael]

I have a hand grenade. If that neighbor dog poops one more time in my yard...

[Red Arrow]

The people have been outgunned by the state for a couple of generations.  Expecting the citizenry to counterbalance the most advanced military in the history of the world with their handguns and hunting rifles and occasionally jury-rigged full-auto assault rifle is just . . . well, humorous. 

Kind of like in Iraq and Afghanistan?