"If I had a son, he’d look like Trayvon."

[Hoss]

Um, how do you pick an IMPARTIAL jury, when all the salacious details have been leaked out to the media?  You do remember a right to a fair and speedy trial, don't you?  Seriously, how do you seat a fair jury when details a judge may rule inadmissible in court, have been heard by potential jurors?  He can say you can't consider anything you've heard outside the court room, but that still doesn't quash any prejudice toward the case a juror may have by what they have seen and read outside the courtroom.

And TTC- psychotic?   Hi Pot!

Where Zimmerman will get convicted (and it may be on lesser charges) is that he left the vehicle and pursued him *against the advice of the dispatcher*.  We talked about this at length during my concealed carry course.  He would have been better off to stay in the vehicle.

[Conan71]

Where Zimmerman will get convicted (and it may be on lesser charges) is that he left the vehicle and pursued him *against the advice of the dispatcher*.  We talked about this at length during my concealed carry course.  He would have been better off to stay in the vehicle.

The police dispatcher is not necessarily the final word, but common sense would have dictated stay in your vehicle and keep an eye on the guy.  

The whole: "It was all God's plan," isn't going to play well.

[Hoss]

The police dispatcher is not necessarily the final word, but common sense would have dictated stay in your vehicle and keep an eye on the guy.  

The whole: "It was all God's plan," isn't going to play well.

We discussed that part of it as well, and how that might play out.  It's not the dispatcher's job description to tell a citizen what to do or not do in that situation, but the fact that the dispatcher did that might make the city liable.  Not saying that myself, but once again, that was discussed in my course.

[AquaMan]

Um, how do you pick an IMPARTIAL jury, when all the salacious details have been leaked out to the media?  You do remember a right to a fair and speedy trial, don't you?  Seriously, how do you seat a fair jury when details a judge may rule inadmissible in court, have been heard by potential jurors?  He can say you can't consider anything you've heard outside the court room, but that still doesn't quash any prejudice toward the case a juror may have by what they have seen and read outside the courtroom.

It's only since news became entertainment in the 1990's this has gone on.  When you need to fill 24 hours worth of space instead of a couple of 30 minute newscasts a day, you tend to beat cases like this to death.  Had this happened in the 1970's or 1980's I doubt this would have registered on a national scale.

Nah. Happens all the time and has since the beginning. A jury will be selected and all safeguards will be in place. You must remember the young lady (Hearst) whose videos of bank robbery for the Symbionese Liberation Army were plastered all over TV in the 1970's before her capture and trial. She was tried and no one paid much attention to whining about prejudice then either. Or for the players in the Tate/LaBianca murders. Or Son of Sam from the 60's. You can't just clamp down on speech in this country. Who would watch TV or read newspapers? Who wants a juror who doesn't?

[AquaMan]

The police dispatcher is not necessarily the final word, but common sense would have dictated stay in your vehicle and keep an eye on the guy.  

The whole: "It was all God's plan," isn't going to play well.

The dispatcher is an officer. They even wear uniforms though they never leave the office. As part of the team, they are trained to give the same or similar advice as an officer on the street would, to retain consistency.

[Hoss]

Nah. Happens all the time and has since the beginning. A jury will be selected and all safeguards will be in place. You must remember the young lady (Hearst) whose videos of bank robbery for the Symbionese Liberation Army were plastered all over TV in the 1970's before her capture and trial. She was tried and no one paid much attention to whining about prejudice then either. Or for the players in the Tate/LaBianca murders. Or Son of Sam from the 60's. You can't just clamp down on speech in this country. Who would watch TV or read newspapers? Who wants a juror who doesn't?

The dispatcher is an officer. They even wear uniforms though they never leave the office. As part of the team, they are trained to give the same or similar advice as an officer on the street would, to retain consistency.

Really?  I have a dispatcher friend who isn't.  Do we know that for sure?

[AquaMan]

Really?  I have a dispatcher friend who isn't.  Do we know that for sure?

Conan is correct. They don't have the same authority or street capability but they are generally part of the PD and trained in the same sop's. They are a lower grade. Go online at the COT and peruse the job description.

Last night I watched a historical account of a murder case in another community involving two police officers and a 911 dispatcher. They all work pretty closely with each other apparently and the natural migration from the dispatcher position is to an officer.

[Conan71]

Nah. Happens all the time and has since the beginning. A jury will be selected and all safeguards will be in place. You must remember the young lady (Hearst) whose videos of bank robbery for the Symbionese Liberation Army were plastered all over TV in the 1970's before her capture and trial. She was tried and no one paid much attention to whining about prejudice then either. Or for the players in the Tate/LaBianca murders. Or Son of Sam from the 60's. You can't just clamp down on speech in this country. Who would watch TV or read newspapers? Who wants a juror who doesn't?

The Hearst story was sensational because she was an heir to the Hearst publishing dynasty.  The videos you refer to were still photos of Patty Hearst used to help identify her when she was one of America's most wanted.  That's hardly the same as releasing evidence un-related to her case to the media ("my cousin George molested me and was a racist even though I never heard him use epithets"), or the media being caught red-handed selectively editing 911 tapes. 

The Manson murders, of course that was sensational, multiple brutal killings plus several celebs killed.  Again, not all details were made public until the trial.

In terms of being a national story prior to 24/7 news channels, this pales in comparison to the magnitude of the gang-land killings of the 1930's or either one of the cases you cited.  30 years ago, you'd never have heard the name Trayvon Martin or George Zimmerman.

[AquaMan]

The Hearst story was sensational because she was an heir to the Hearst publishing dynasty.  The videos you refer to were still photos of Patty Hearst used to help identify her when she was one of America's most wanted.  That's hardly the same as releasing evidence un-related to her case to the media ("my cousin George molested me and was a racist even though I never heard him use epithets"), or the media being caught red-handed selectively editing 911 tapes. 

The Manson murders, of course that was sensational, multiple brutal killings plus several celebs killed.  Again, not all details were made public until the trial.

In terms of being a national story prior to 24/7 news channels, this pales in comparison to the magnitude of the gang-land killings of the 1930's or either one of the cases you cited.  30 years ago, you'd never have heard the name Trayvon Martin or George Zimmerman.

I can't agree with you there Conan. Salacious details are always leaked in high profile cases. Sometimes aided by unscrupulous powerful people like Hoover and his FBI. In this case both sides seem to be playing. Hearst newspapers in their heyday were masters at it. Hearst actually murdered his wife's lover and got away with it by using the power of the press. Of course the internet and 24/7 news has magnified that process no denying.

I won't go back through the decades to prove my point as its not so important to me as to you. Those came to mind immediately. I will say, the press did release tons of info on those folks long before trial and the jury pools were indeed poisoned and it makes no difference the severity of their crime or who their parents were. Your point that he can't get a fair trial in this day and age due to the coverage means that no one can since leaks are never going away.

[DolfanBob]

Speaking of Manson. I always thought that his sentence was all for the public. The old, Make a example of him. Kind of like what Hitler, Hussein or Gadhafi would have got here in the U.S. Judicial system. He just plotted the crimes with no blood on his hands and the actual killers are now free citizens. The ones that are still alive.
Plenty of worse crimes are played out everyday and life with "NEVER" parole usually is not what is handed down. So yes I believe that the News and public opinion in that case was the Judge and Jury. Plus him being bat sh!t nuts in Court didn't help any.

[Hoss]

Conan is correct. They don't have the same authority or street capability but they are generally part of the PD and trained in the same sop's. They are a lower grade. Go online at the COT and peruse the job description.

Last night I watched a historical account of a murder case in another community involving two police officers and a 911 dispatcher. They all work pretty closely with each other apparently and the natural migration from the dispatcher position is to an officer.

That may not be the case at every municipal police department.  In fact, with my friend, I'm sure of it.  He is employed by the city and title doesn't include anything police specific.  I've asked him specifically.  He can't even carry without a conceal carry license.

[AquaMan]

That may not be the case at every municipal police department.  In fact, with my friend, I'm sure of it.  He is employed by the city and title doesn't include anything police specific.  I've asked him specifically.  He can't even carry without a conceal carry license.

Yeah, this is Tulsa. They do have to wear a uniform here and the training is pretty demanding according to the job description. Nonetheless, when it comes to GZ's trial they will make pretty good witnesses and most people feel he should have followed their advice.

[Conan71]

I will say, the press did release tons of info on those folks long before trial and the jury pools were indeed poisoned and it makes no difference the severity of their crime or who their parents were. Your point that he can't get a fair trial in this day and age due to the coverage means that no one can since leaks are never going away.

The part I emboldened was my original point.

Actually, the vast majority can get a fair trial because most cases are not sensationalized to the point the media looks at their family background, what they ate two hours before the killing, their marital record, interviews with grade school teachers, etc.

Leaks to the media do impinge on someone's right to a trial in front of a fair and impartial jury, especially when a prosecutor leaks information which they know will help form some sort of prejudice.  I believe the right to a fair trial is far more important than a nosy public's right to "public records". 

Why do we really need to know any of the facts in the Martin/Zimmerman case until after it's been heard at trial, other than being nosy?

[heironymouspasparagus]

Speaking of Manson. I always thought that his sentence was all for the public. The old, Make a example of him. Kind of like what Hitler, Hussein or Gadhafi would have got here in the U.S. Judicial system. He just plotted the crimes with no blood on his hands and the actual killers are now free citizens. The ones that are still alive.
Plenty of worse crimes are played out everyday and life with "NEVER" parole usually is not what is handed down. So yes I believe that the News and public opinion in that case was the Judge and Jury. Plus him being bat sh!t nuts in Court didn't help any.

Charlie got the death penalty.  It was changed to life when death penalty struck down the first time.

Helter Skelter!!

[RecycleMichael]

Of course the internet and 24/7 news has magnified that process no denying.

Go ahead. Blame Al Gore.