"If I had a son, he’d look like Trayvon."

[guido911]

My mind was made up instantly. I am not judge and jury. I am fully aware of the negative impact the gun society is having on liberty. I await a trial. It beats leaving the case in permanent limbo.

Just shut UP!  You are too stupid to see how embarrassing you really are. I hope folks that lurk around here do not get their impressions of Tulsa from you.

[Teatownclown]

Just shut UP!  You are too stupid to see how embarrassing you really are. I hope folks that lurk around here do not get their impressions of Tulsa from you.

Delusional cop wannabe. Most of Zimmerman's many many 911 calls were sightings of black males, including an 11 year old kid in one case.

Self defense would have been Zimmerman fighting Martin straight up. He was losing a fight. It happens to bullies sometimes.

Is it legal to instigate a confrontation, then when losing a fist fight pull a pistol and kill your adversary?

[heironymouspasparagus]

Delusional cop wannabe. Most of Zimmerman's many many 911 calls were sightings of black males, including an 11 year old kid in one case.

Self defense would have been Zimmerman fighting Martin straight up. He was losing a fight. It happens to bullies sometimes.

Is it legal to instigate a confrontation, then when losing a fist fight pull a pistol and kill your adversary?

No, it isn't.  And he should be tried (and I think convicted).  Just no connection to a "negative impact...".  There IS no negative impact - there are millions...no, tens of millions...of people in this country who are good, law abiding gun owners who at least have the nominal ability to defend themselves, as well as enjoy the myriad shooting sports available in this country. 

[nathanm]

as well as enjoy the myriad shooting sports available in this country. 

Even in the relatively gun-phobic Canada, you can own and use guns for sport. Nobody has seriously proposed melting down all the guns, so this doesn't really support an argument against gun control.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Even in the relatively gun-phobic Canada, you can own and use guns for sport. Nobody has seriously proposed melting down all the guns, so this doesn't really support an argument against gun control.

It wasn't an argument.  It was just an extra benefit to having the right.


And yes, there are MANY who seriously propose melting down all the guns.  Or cutting them in half.  Here.  In this country.  And it has happened way too often.  And it's wrong - on many levels.

[TeeDub]

Delusional cop wannabe. Most of Zimmerman's many many 911 calls were sightings of black males, including an 11 year old kid in one case.

Is it legal to instigate a confrontation, then when losing a fist fight pull a pistol and kill your adversary?

So calling 911 on strangers in your neighborhood is now grounds for being "delusional?"      I guess you should talk to the weird busybody lady that lives next door to me.

Yes, it is legal to stop someone and tell them the cops are on their way....   If they should assault you at that point (ie. they start punching you in the face) it is legal to shoot them in self defense.

[RecycleMichael]

So calling 911 on strangers in your neighborhood is now grounds for being "delusional?"     

He called 911 operators 41 times in two months. I don't know if delusional is the right term, but that ain't normal.

[Hoss]

So calling 911 on strangers in your neighborhood is now grounds for being "delusional?"      I guess you should talk to the weird busybody lady that lives next door to me.

Yes, it is legal to stop someone and tell them the cops are on their way....   If they should assault you at that point (ie. they start punching you in the face) it is legal to shoot them in self defense.

Actually, no it's not.  Level of attack applies here, especially if you're not in your own home.  If the assailant pulls a knife or gun, then obviously yes it is.

If you were in your home OR vehicle and could prove you had a reasonable expectation of loss of life or being maimed, then yes, Castle Doctrine would apply here.

[TeeDub]

Actually, no it's not.  Level of attack applies here, especially if you're not in your own home.  If the assailant pulls a knife or gun, then obviously yes it is.

If you were in your home OR vehicle and could prove you had a reasonable expectation of loss of life or being maimed, then yes, Castle Doctrine would apply here.

No, not really.   If someone is punching me in the face that is fear of great bodily harm.  People have died from punches.

"Bodily harm" means physical pain or injury, illness, or any impairment of physical condition.  (Or so defined in Wisconsin.)
The dictionary defines "serious," in the context of an injury, as "having important or dangerous possible consequences."  Black's Law Dictionary supplies a similar meaning:  "dangerous;  potentially resulting in death or other severe consequences."   Black's Law Dictionary 1398 (8th ed. 2004)

[Hoss]

No, not really.   If someone is punching me in the face that is fear of great bodily harm.  People have died from punches.

"Bodily harm" means physical pain or injury, illness, or any impairment of physical condition.  (Or so defined in Wisconsin.)
The dictionary defines "serious," in the context of an injury, as "having important or dangerous possible consequences."  Black's Law Dictionary supplies a similar meaning:  "dangerous;  potentially resulting in death or other severe consequences."   Black's Law Dictionary 1398 (8th ed. 2004)

Try shooting someone like that and claim self-defense here.  Won't hold water.  Especially if you're not within your 'castle', even if you have a Handgun license.  It was pretty specifically outlined, at least to me, during my classes.

[Ed W]

He called 911 operators 41 times in two months. I don't know if delusional is the right term, but that ain't normal.

Michael, I had neighbors who called the cops every day.  When they weren't fighting each other, they called to complain that a relative had stolen something or that an unknown prowler had broken into the house.  Most of it was imaginary.  They were very weird people.  

But we heard the dispatcher put out a call for an officer to visit their address.  There would be a long silence, then one of the patrol cops would say with a note of resignation, "OK, I'll take it this time."

It's possible that the Florida cops had a similar response after so many fruitless calls.  That may have fueled Zimmerman's frustration and anger.  And I'm merely speculating, of course, but I suspect this will come out at trial.  He was advised to not approach, yet he did so anyway perhaps out of frustration at the police response.

[RecycleMichael]

I think he was just obsessed with his voluntary job of neighborhood watch guy. He had an image in his mind that black teenagers in his neighborhood were there to steal and called every time he saw one. I believe he was frustrated with the police and took it upon himself to confront one of them.

He was clearly told not to, but ignored the police dispatcher. Instead he started a fight, got punched, and pulled out a gun and killed the boy.

He belongs behind bars. He was wrong and now someone is dead because of his actions.

[DolfanBob]

Whoa! Whoa! Scotty, take it down a notch. He started a fight? confronting and asking a question. Then turning to walk away after he was accosted verbally. Getting blindsided with a punch to the head and taken to the ground is starting a fight?
That's what you get for asking a loaded question I guess. 

[patric]

The game-changer was the fact that the gunman pursued his victim.
That deflates any "I was in fear for my life" stock excuse he was apparently coached on.

[RecycleMichael]

Whoa! Whoa! Scotty, take it down a notch. He started a fight?

Ok you are right. I used the word fight and the prosecutor used the word confrontation.

From wikipedia...

The prosecution's account is largely contained in the affidavit of probable cause filed on April 11, 2012 in support of second-degree murder charges against Zimmerman. A conviction of second-degree murder could result in Zimmerman receiving a prison term of 25 years to life. The affidavit states that it does not contain a complete recitation of facts, but presents only the facts to support probable cause for second-degree murder charges. Judge Mark Herr ruled that the affidavit was legally sufficient to establish probable cause.The affidavit describes what investigators allege took place between Zimmerman and Martin on the night of the shooting.

The affidavit states that Martin was walking back from a nearby 7-Eleven store to the townhouse where he was temporarily living when Zimmerman profiled Martin, who was unarmed and not committing a crime. Prosecutor's stated that Zimmerman was driving in his vehicle when he observed Martin and assumed he was a criminal. Feeling that Martin did not belong in the gated community where Zimmerman lived, he called the police to request for an officer to respond, because he perceived Martin was acting suspicious. Investigators said the dispatcher told Zimmerman an officer was on the way and to wait for him. In the call, Zimmerman made reference to people he felt had gotten away with break-ins in the neighborhood, and while talking about Martin, stated "these assholes, they always get away" and also said "these fu@king punks".

According to investigators, while Zimmerman was speaking with police, Martin was on the phone with a friend and described to her what was happening. She said that Martin was scared because he was being followed by an unknown male and didn't know why. Investigators said that Martin attempted to run home, but Zimmerman followed him, because he didn't want Martin whom he falsely assumed was going to commit a crime, to get away before the police arrived. When the police dispatcher realized Zimmerman was pursuing Martin, he instructed Zimmerman not to do that and told him an officer would meet him. Prosecutors stated that Zimmerman ignored the dispatcher's instruction and continued pursuing Martin on foot. Investigators said Zimmerman then confronted Martin and a struggle ensued.

The affidavit describes witness accounts of hearing people arguing, what sounded like a struggle, and yells for help that were recorded in the 9-1-1 calls to police. According to prosecutors, Martin's mother reviewed the 9-1-1 calls to police and identified the voice crying for help as her son.  When police arrived at the scene, Zimmerman admitted to shooting Martin in the chest. An assistant medical examiner conducted an autopsy and determined that Martin had died from the gunshot.