Tulsa Public Schools Spending

[heironymouspasparagus]

There will never be technology available in the remote areas beyond dial up?

Nothing can be done?  

It hasn't happened yet.  Even with cheap fiber - which has been installed over the last few years with subsidies from government....  Example: Totah Communications.  North of here in OK and KS.  Only company available in the area and stupid expensive for what you get!

Their idea of DSL is 2M/sec at about $65 per month.  Then add on the $15 or so for phone, plus another 40 + minutes fee, or so for long distance.... yeah, if you live in rural Oklahoma, you can certainly do distance learning.... not.

[TeeDub]

It hasn't happened yet.  Even with cheap fiber - which has been installed over the last few years with subsidies from government....  Example: Totah Communications.  North of here in OK and KS.  Only company available in the area and stupid expensive for what you get!

Their idea of DSL is 2M/sec at about $65 per month.  Then add on the $15 or so for phone, plus another 40 + minutes fee, or so for long distance.... yeah, if you live in rural Oklahoma, you can certainly do distance learning.... not.

The problem is that the Universal Service Fund helps support the phone line, but not the broadband.   (Typical case of legislation being outpaced by technology.)   If the FCC moved the support to broadband and treated landline phones as an ancillary service, the price would drop.

[heironymouspasparagus]

The problem is that the Universal Service Fund helps support the phone line, but not the broadband.   (Typical case of legislation being outpaced by technology.)   If the FCC moved the support to broadband and treated landline phones as an ancillary service, the price would drop.

And most of Europe has dramatically better service.  Prices.  Selection of providers.  As with health care and health insurance - another area where we SHOULD be taking notice of the better example.

[TeeDub]

And most of Europe has dramatically better service.  Prices.  Selection of providers.  As with health care and health insurance - another area where we SHOULD be taking notice of the better example.

Let's be honest.   Western Europe has great service.   It also doesn't have the low population densities that the US does.   That is how they can support things like rail.   It is hard to make any money (and thus keep rates low) when you have three telephone subscribers per square mile.

Compared to Nowata, Tulsa has great prices, dramatically better service and a selection of providers.   It's called population, it allows those things.

[nathanm]

Compared to Nowata, Tulsa has great prices, dramatically better service and a selection of providers.   It's called population, it allows those things.

And compared to Lavaca, Arkansas or Prairie Grove, Arkansas, we have similar selection with worse service. Here, as there, you get a choice between the phone company and the cable company. There, however, the telephone coops have put money into their infrastructure and built out fiber to the premises. The point being that the usual excuses the incumbents use are a bunch of BS even in the current system. Those excuses are completely irrelevant to a public or quasi-public utility model.

Low population density is not something that is restricted only to North America, despite what the phone companies continue to claim.

[rebound]

...It is hard to make any money (and thus keep rates low) when you have three telephone subscribers per square mile.

Actually in the several square miles around where I grew up, it's closer to one house per square mile!  My folks now get their internet via microwave from a provider out of Walters, OK.  I think they have the "enhanced" plan,  1Mb (whoo hoo!) speed and a limit of 40G per month, for $35.  It is painful to be at their house and try to get anything done on the internet.  (They could step up the "Ultra" plan, and get "up to 2Mb" download speed for $45, but that's just to high-falutin' for them right now...)

Going back to the remote learning discussion,  I just can't see it being a real option for the majority of students.  In the rural areas school functions as much more than just a place to learn.  It's a community center and social hub as well.  Just about every school event (even the school plays and such) is a chance to gather.  Taking away  this social aspect, and the chance for social learning in addition to academic, would really be a disservice to that slice of the population.  And of course, as someone else noted, if sports teams are considered important (and they most definitely are in rural areas), the kids need to practice daily during that season anyway.   I'm all for bringing high-speed internet to the rural areas, but would hate to see that used as justification for increasing their physical isolation.

[Townsend]

Going back to the remote learning discussion,  I just can't see it being a real option for the majority of students.  In the rural areas school functions as much more than just a place to learn.  It's a community center and social hub as well.  Just about every school event (even the school plays and such) is a chance to gather.  Taking away  this social aspect, and the chance for social learning in addition to academic, would really be a disservice to that slice of the population.  And of course, as someone else noted, if sports teams are considered important (and they most definitely are in rural areas), the kids need to practice daily during that season anyway.   I'm all for bringing high-speed internet to the rural areas, but would hate to see that used as justification for increasing their physical isolation.

But if the money's cut from the budget...

[heironymouspasparagus]

Let's be honest.   Western Europe has great service.   It also doesn't have the low population densities that the US does.   That is how they can support things like rail.   It is hard to make any money (and thus keep rates low) when you have three telephone subscribers per square mile.

Compared to Nowata, Tulsa has great prices, dramatically better service and a selection of providers.   It's called population, it allows those things.

AT&T is about 5 miles away, but won't ever 'visit' the area.... kind of like the truce between lawyers and sharks - it's a professional courtesy thing....

[TeeDub]

AT&T is about 5 miles away, but won't ever 'visit' the area.... kind of like the truce between lawyers and sharks - it's a professional courtesy thing....

Or a required by the Oklahoma Corporation Commission thing.   It's called service territory.    Same reason you can't get PSO and GRDA in the same areas.

[nathanm]

Or a required by the Oklahoma Corporation Commission thing.   It's called service territory.

Telecom companies are perfectly free to operate outside of their incumbent area if they so choose.

Edited to add: For some definition of perfectly free that allows for paperwork requirements, that is.

[sauerkraut]

The Tulsa Schools have snow days to make up and yet the Tulsa  schools still closed last Monday for some protest. Go figure out that one! The lost days should be made up in full not with just tacking 15 minutes to a school day. How about some Saturday school?

[TeeDub]

Telecom companies are perfectly free to operate outside of their incumbent area if they so choose.

Edited to add: For some definition of perfectly free that allows for paperwork requirements, that is.

True.

I stand corrected.  It can be done, just not easily or without lots of paperwork.

[RecycleMichael]

The Tulsa Schools have snow days to make up and yet the Tulsa  schools still closed last Monday for some protest. Go figure out that one! The lost days should be made up in full not with just tacking 15 minutes to a school day. How about some Saturday school?

Whenever I need advice on education and my children's future, I think of asking you. Saturday school would be impossible for most students, parents, and teachers and would dramatically rise costs for everything from salaries to utility costs. But hey, why not do it anyway?

[swake]

Whenever I need advice on education and my children's future, I think of asking you. Saturday school would be impossible for most students, parents, and teachers and would dramatically rise costs for everything from salaries to utility costs. But hey, why not do it anyway?

If anyone needs some additional school time, it's Kraut.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Or a required by the Oklahoma Corporation Commission thing.   It's called service territory.    Same reason you can't get PSO and GRDA in the same areas.

An Oklahoma Corruption Commission thing....