Voter Suppression!

[Teatownclown]

Pennsylvania Gov. Tom Corbett admits that they want to keep voter turnout down.

http://laborspains.blogspot.com/2012/05/more-voter-suppression-this-time.html

The GOP/Teabaggers can't claim to be patriotic when it comes to advocating a true democracy.

[MrsConan]

If you don't have a photo ID, how do you prove who you are?  How do you write a check?  Pay with a Visa?  Get access to your bank account?  Buy alcohol?  Buy tobacco?  Should we just let everybody and anybody vote?  What if they are in this country illegally? 

[AquaMan]

If you don't have a photo ID, how do you prove who you are?  How do you write a check?  Pay with a Visa?  Get access to your bank account?  Buy alcohol?  Buy tobacco?  Should we just let everybody and anybody vote?  What if they are in this country illegally?  

If you don't have a photo ID, how do you prove who you are? You exist separately from government issued identification. It is purely voluntary. Nonetheless I could use what the Library requires for a membership card, a utility bill with my address. No photo id required.

How do you write a check? With a pen usually. Some people don't use checks at all. And they have voted for years.

Pay with a Visa? Cash, IOU, barter for goods and services. Never had a credit card till I got my first job out of college. Voted without one too.

Get access to your bank account? Bank accounts not required by law but if I had one I could use my birth certificate which is what is required to get a SS card or and ID

Buy alcohol? Rely upon the kindness of strangers and friends.

Buy tobacco? We arbitrarily choose to put age limits on purchase and possession of liquor and alcohol and then pretty much ignore them. Nothing to do with voting unless you note that the id provided was obviously for an underage voter.

Should we just let everybody and anybody vote? If they are citizens we have let them for over two centuries. Fake ID's, stolen identifications, etc have existed forever. Why do we think that will ever change or ever amount to more than a .00001% of the voting public?

What if they are in this country illegally? Deport them after a good talking to.

Seriously, there is no requirement to have an ID to do anything and many people consider it a government intrusion or conspiracy to force them to. We are trying to kill a fly with a hammer with voter laws that have no consensus by all parties. If it happens under a particular political party's leadership without support from the opposing party it will always be viewed with suspicion.

edit: one other thing. What makes you think that a photo ID is any more valid than a non photo ID? When I first went to get my DL, they took my word for it and looked at my SS card which isn't even valid for identification. I could have just as easily sent my brother for the photo. In fact, that might have been a dang good idea!

[Hoss]

If you don't have a photo ID, how do you prove who you are? You exist separately from government issued identification. It is purely voluntary. Nonetheless I could use what the Library requires for a membership card, a utility bill with my address. No photo id required.

How do you write a check? With a pen usually. Some people don't use checks at all. And they have voted for years.

Pay with a Visa? Cash, IOU, barter for goods and services. Never had a credit card till I got my first job out of college. Voted without one too.

Get access to your bank account? Bank accounts not required by law but if I had one I could use my birth certificate which is what is required to get a SS card or and ID

Buy alcohol? Rely upon the kindness of strangers and friends.

Buy tobacco? We arbitrarily choose to put age limits on purchase and possession of liquor and alcohol and then pretty much ignore them. Nothing to do with voting unless you note that the id provided was obviously for an underage voter.

Should we just let everybody and anybody vote? If they are citizens we have let them for over two centuries. Fake ID's, stolen identifications, etc have existed forever. Why do we think that will ever change or ever amount to more than a .00001% of the voting public?

What if they are in this country illegally? Deport them after a good talking to.

Seriously, there is no requirement to have an ID to do anything and many people consider it a government intrusion or conspiracy to force them to. We are trying to kill a fly with a hammer with voter laws that have no consensus by all parties. If it happens under a particular political party's leadership without support from the opposing party it will always be viewed with suspicion.

edit: one other thing. What makes you think that a photo ID is any more valid than a non photo ID? When I first went to get my DL, they took my word for it and looked at my SS card which isn't even valid for identification. I could have just as easily sent my brother for the photo. In fact, that might have been a dang good idea!

Remember, it wasn't until the late 70s that Oklahoma even started issuing photo IDs.  What did they do back then?

[nathanm]

If you don't have a photo ID, how do you prove who you are?  How do you write a check?  Pay with a Visa?  Get access to your bank account?  Buy alcohol?  Buy tobacco?  Should we just let everybody and anybody vote?  What if they are in this country illegally?  

I don't feel the need to prove who I am. If I do, I have this fine thing called a passport. I write checks very simply. Simply put pen to paper, then drop the check in the mail. Not that I've done that in two years now. I pay with a Visa by either using my cell phone, swiping the card in the reader, or handing the cashier my card. The others I do by walking into Quiktrip (or the liquor store around the corner, if we're talking Marshall's) and making a purchase from people who know me and are known to me.

I think the last time I used my DL for anything was last time I got pulled over a couple of years ago.

As far as voting goes, I'm not terribly interested in making my rights contingent upon completing even more paperwork. It's already bad enough you have to register to vote in advance. If there was any proof of some wave of illegal immigrants voting in numbers sufficient to matter, I might feel differently. Even then, I'd probably laugh because it's not exactly a difficult thing to get a fake ID. Besides, these are people who spend their lives trying to live under the radar. What possible incentive could they have to try to vote other than some jackass bribing them?

What voter ID laws actually do is disenfranchise the poor and elderly.

When I first registered to vote in Arkansas, I didn't have a street address, so I didn't have an ID, or anything else, with my street address on it. I had to draw a map for the county clerk to show where I lived and sign a statement under penalty of perjury that I lived at that location. Seems to me we have plenty of protection against voter fraud. It's called the law, and it's a felony charge.

[we vs us]

If there was any proof of some wave of illegal immigrants voting in numbers sufficient to matter, I might feel differently.

This, to me, is the nut of the matter.  Why would we introduce more laws, more bureaucracy, and more restrictions when we can't even prove there's a problem to solve in the first place?  And why do conservatives believe bolstering bureaucracy here in order to restrict the franchise is acceptable, while they howl at the first sign of added restrictions to, say, the trading practices of global banks?

[Ed W]

This, to me, is the nut of the matter.  Why would we introduce more laws, more bureaucracy, and more restrictions when we can't even prove there's a problem to solve in the first place?  And why do conservatives believe bolstering bureaucracy here in order to restrict the franchise is acceptable, while they howl at the first sign of added restrictions to, say, the trading practices of global banks?

This is merely another example of conservative opposing big, intrusive government...except when they don't.

[guido911]

If you don't have a photo ID, how do you prove who you are?  How do you write a check?  Pay with a Visa?  Get access to your bank account?  Buy alcohol?  Buy tobacco?  Should we just let everybody and anybody vote?  What if they are in this country illegally? 

Welcome aboard Mrs. C. Looking forward to hearing from you regularly. Just so you know, I am always right, Conan most of the time, like Red. Everyone else, they are right when they agree with me. There.

[we vs us]

This is merely another example of conservative opposing big, intrusive government...except when they don't.

I don't think that's necessarily contradictory in every case, but I just don't get how limiting one of our biggest freedoms for no reason advances the stuff that conservatives truly care about. 

[nathanm]

I don't think that's necessarily contradictory in every case, but I just don't get how limiting one of our biggest freedoms for no reason advances the stuff that conservatives truly care about. 

For the conservative power brokers it's about the demographics, which are not very kind to them. The more people that vote the more likely they are to lose, because their base is already going to show up to vote, being largely older folks who are reliable voters. You'll note that the folks who get disenfranchised in their "cleaning" schemes are rarely likely Republican voters.

[Ed W]

Welcome aboard Mrs. C. Looking forward to hearing from you regularly. Just so you know, I am always right, Conan most of the time, like Red. Everyone else, they are right when they agree with me. There.

Nice photo, Guido.  How'd you grow all that hair?

And one minor correction - Guido is seldom right but he is always TO the right.  It's a minor, but critical difference.  I am always right, however, except when She-Who-Must-Be-Obeyed is nearby, then I'm usually silent.

[guido911]

Nice photo, Guido.  How'd you grow all that hair?

And one minor correction - Guido is seldom right but he is always TO the right.  It's a minor, but critical difference.  I am always right, however, except when She-Who-Must-Be-Obeyed is nearby, then I'm usually silent.

Good one Ed. On topic. This is how voter suppression is handled in Wisconsin...

http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/wife-drives-into-chippewa-falls-man-after-vote-argument-ke5bdap-150697635.html

[AquaMan]

From the Journal-Sentinel:

"When she finally attempted to drive around him, Jeffrey Radle jumped in front of the vehicle and was hit. Aman da Radle left the scene and went to the police department to report the incident, the release said.

"These crazy liberal nuts are always pulling this crap," said Radle's brother, Mike Radle, describing himself and his brother as firm supporters of Walker, the subject of the recall.


Who's the crazy one here? Isn't it the guy who jumps in front of a moving car?

[Hoss]

From the Journal-Sentinel:

"When she finally attempted to drive around him, Jeffrey Radle jumped in front of the vehicle and was hit. Aman da Radle left the scene and went to the police department to report the incident, the release said.

"These crazy liberal nuts are always pulling this crap," said Radle's brother, Mike Radle, describing himself and his brother as firm supporters of Walker, the subject of the recall.


Who's the crazy one here? Isn't it the guy who jumps in front of a moving car?

That would only be if you are a liberal.   

[guido911]

From the Journal-Sentinel:

"When she finally attempted to drive around him, Jeffrey Radle jumped in front of the vehicle and was hit. Aman da Radle left the scene and went to the police department to report the incident, the release said.

"These crazy liberal nuts are always pulling this crap," said Radle's brother, Mike Radle, describing himself and his brother as firm supporters of Walker, the subject of the recall.


Who's the crazy one here? Isn't it the guy who jumps in front of a moving car?

I was literally not taking sides with this one so who's crazy doesn't matter to me. I thought the story was funny.