Renouncing Citizenship Over Taxation

[Red Arrow]

Go directly to the source and you'll find the IRS gives figures for the top 400. (not sure if they do the top 0.1% or not) You'll find that the folks lower on the scale pay a higher percentage, even within the top 1%. Sort of like how the folks in the 10th to 5th percentile pay the highest percentage of anyone. They're not generally wealthy enough to make capital gains money or take advantage of the many loopholes. The tax attorneys who know about the dirty little secrets are rather expensive, obviously.

I really don't care about the top 400 taxpayers in the USA.  Ignore the man behind the curtain screaming 16%.  Look at the numbers below the top 10%, the columns for between 10% & 25%, between 25 and 50%, and below 50%.  They are ALL below Herion's magic 16%.  That's why if I say if he is paying well over 16%, I have no sympathy for him.  Yes this is about income tax, not the total burden including sales tax, property tax......  but that is what this discussion is about - income tax on AGI (and not just W-2 income).  We all know the others are there.

[nathanm]

My point is that the folks at the very top pay less. Less, even, than a single person making $65,000 a year, if you count payroll tax. Which you should, since chances are the folks at the top are paying SE tax, which gets reported in the SOI tables as part of the income tax, if I'm remembering correctly.

[Red Arrow]

My point is that the folks at the very top pay less. Less, even, than a single person making $65,000 a year, if you count payroll tax. Which you should, since chances are the folks at the top are paying SE tax, which gets reported in the SOI tables as part of the income tax, if I'm remembering correctly.

I am well aware of your point just as you should be aware that:
1.  The really wealthy pay more dollars in tax in one year, even at low percentage rates, than I will make in my lifetime.  It's a non-issue for me that they pay a bit lower rate.
2.  Payroll tax is a tax that, if we live long enough, will benefit us directly in $ in our individual pockets.  It benefits the bottom of the pay scale more than those at the top in terms of living expenses so it doesn't bother me that the tax is a larger part of the bottom's pay.  It also doesn't bother me that only the first (approx) $106,000 is subject to the payroll tax since benefits are based partly on contributions.  Someone making 100 times what you or I do isn't going to get 100 times the monthly SS benefits that you or I will get.

[Gaspar]

I am well aware of your point just as you should be aware that:
1.  The really wealthy pay more dollars in tax in one year, even at low percentage rates, than I will make in my lifetime.  It's a non-issue for me that they pay a bit lower rate.
2.  Payroll tax is a tax that, if we live long enough, will benefit us directly in $ in our individual pockets.  It benefits the bottom of the pay scale more than those at the top in terms of living expenses so it doesn't bother me that the tax is a larger part of the bottom's pay.  It also doesn't bother me that only the first (approx) $106,000 is subject to the payroll tax since benefits are based partly on contributions.  Someone making 100 times what you or I do isn't going to get 100 times the monthly SS benefits that you or I will get.

Red,
You are banging your head against an unyielding wall.  Envy is the primary motivator behind demonizing the successful, not fairness, not the deficit, not helping the poor, not creating jobs, nothing but envy. 

Even if the progs were to pass laws confiscating 90% or 100% of the wealth of the successful, it would represent a puff of smoke against the pillar of flame they would/do propose in spending.  If they were to take down every evil rich guy, every evil bankster, and bleed every fat-cat business owner, it would only be to satisfy some misguided view of justice.

In the end they would reap a world without incentive, a nation of dullards unchallenged by the burden of innovation and the rewards of success.  They want to build up failure by destroying achievement.  They see a collective society as an attractive alternative to their own broken dreams.  It's personal for them. 


Progressives make the mistake of confusing individual worth with success. They believe you cannot allow people to succeed in case those who fail feel worthless. – Kenneth Baker

Wealth comes from successful individual efforts to please one's fellow man ... that's what competition is all about: "outpleasing" your competitors to win over the consumers. – Walter Williams

The economic miracle that has been the United States was not produced by socialized enterprises, by government-unon-industry cartels or by centralized economic planning. It was produced by private enterprises in a profit-and-loss system. And losses were at least as important in weeding out failures, as profits in fostering successes. Let government succor failures, and we shall be headed for stagnation and decline. – Milton Friedman

The whole gospel of Karl Marx can be summed up in a single sentence: Hate the man who is better off than you are. Never under any circumstances admit that his success may be due to his own efforts, to the productive contribution he has made to the whole community. Always attribute his success to the exploitation, the cheating, the more or less open robbery of others. Never under any circumstances admit that your own failure may be owing to your own weakness, or that the failure of anyone else may be due to his own defects – his laziness, incompetence, improvidence, or stupidity. – Henry Hazlitt

[heironymouspasparagus]

Even if the progs were to pass laws confiscating 90% or 100% of the wealth of the successful, it would represent a puff of smoke against the pillar of flame they would/do propose in spending. 

And we have absolute proof of how false THAT is by the spending of the last 32 years - you remember all those years don't you - where Republican spending has shown the Democrats how little they actually did?  And how much you could get away with just by saying the other guy is a tax/spend type of guy...

[Red Arrow]

Red,
You are banging your head against an unyielding wall. 

Not really.  I know you can't raise the temperature of a pan of boiling water with an ice cube.

[guido911]

Red,
You are banging your head against an unyielding wall.  Envy is the primary motivator behind demonizing the successful, not fairness, not the deficit, not helping the poor, not creating jobs, nothing but envy.  

That's it in a nutshell. As I have said repeatedly, looking back when I was younger and living basically hand to mouth, I can't recall ever thinking to myself, "Gee, what this country and I really need is to take more money from the guy making more than me."

Now, was I envious? Sure. Seeing my superiors rolling up in their Mercedes and Porsche while I drove something looking like this for six years:



But instead of bitching about it I worked my aquaman off.

[nathanm]

As long as you pretend to know the motivations in my head (and get them wrong) you'll find it difficult to understand my point of view. That's OK. It's a common problem. As I've said on many occasions, I like that there are rich people, especially when they share their nice things with me, as they often do. As I've also repeatedly stated, I have no problem with the folks like Guido who are paying more than their fair share already. The real problems are at the very top where straight tax evasion is distressingly common and almost never gets prosecuted even when discovered.

[Conan71]

As long as you pretend to know the motivations in my head (and get them wrong) you'll find it difficult to understand my point of view. That's OK. It's a common problem. As I've said on many occasions, I like that there are rich people, especially when they share their nice things with me, as they often do. As I've also repeatedly stated, I have no problem with the folks like Guido who are paying more than their fair share already. The real problems are at the very top where straight tax evasion is distressingly common and almost never gets prosecuted even when discovered.

I like rich people.  Especially when they are sharing Marshall's!

[nathanm]

I like rich people.  Especially when they are sharing Marshall's!

You're speaking my language... 

[AquaMan]

That's it in a nutshell. As I have said repeatedly, looking back when I was younger and living basically hand to mouth, I can't recall ever thinking to myself, "Gee, what this country and I really need is to take more money from the guy making more than me."

Now, was I envious? Sure. Seeing my superiors rolling up in their Mercedes and Porsche while I drove something looking like this for six years:



But instead of bitching about it I worked my aquaman off.

Hah! That was funny. I often think of you too. About 10am each morning as I flush the commode. And just like that.....gone!

[DolfanBob]

I like rich people.  Especially when they are sharing Marshall's!

Ha! I knew someone would slip that in here. Well played Conan "The Barbarian"

[guido911]

Going for the record. Woo-hoo. Party time.

http://blogs.wsj.com/totalreturn/2014/10/24/more-americans-renounce-citizenship-with-2014-on-pace-for-a-record/

Trying to find out where they are heading before I cry racism.

[dbacksfan 2.0]

Going for the record. Woo-hoo. Party time.

http://blogs.wsj.com/totalreturn/2014/10/24/more-americans-renounce-citizenship-with-2014-on-pace-for-a-record/

Trying to find out where they are heading before I cry racism.

Sorry guido, but what you proclaim and what the article discusses is apples and oranges. Scaling that to a year is less than 1% of the population and a large part are not actual citizens and it's in response to the Swiss no longer being a safe haven for hiding money.

[sauerkraut]

Very few people do it, and they increased the fees too..  Many people Renounce citizen ship and move to a country like Panama with no income taxes and then they get a Visa to re-enter the USA and carry on without the tax burden. The $3,000+ fee is pocket change to many people who make the big jump but more and more people are doing it as our taxes and regulations grow worse and worse with every passing year.