Executive Privilege

[Gaspar]

So. . . I went back in my Google time machine to the case before it was heavily connected to the Justice Department.  Last year when it was considered a major ATF screwup, and CBS uncovered ATF documents that linked it to an effort by the ATF to push stronger gun control legislation.  http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-57338546-10391695/documents-atf-used-fast-and-furious-to-make-the-case-for-gun-regulations/

Now, if the ATF was involved in an effort to take a failed secret program that caused the deaths of thousands of Mexicans and a few Americans and turn it into some kind of campaign for gun control, do you think perhaps just maybe they might tap the higher-up powers that be (who also support stricter gun laws) to help rally the cause?  Why wouldn't they?

I give it about a 99% chance that their are emails that exist between the administration and ATF outlining this as a fantastic Solyndra like opportunity to push gun control legislation.  If Special Agent John Dodson had not followed his conscious and confessed to the existence and failure of the program, I am 99% positive we would be receiving teleprompter speeches about how lax American Gun control laws are to blame for thousands of innocent lives, including the life of one Brian Terry, who's widow would be sitting in box seats at the State of the Union address with the lovely First Lady.

Lots of bodies here.  This may be worse than Watergate.

[Townsend]

This may be worse than Watergate.

Bay of Pigs?  Iran/Contra?  Panama?  Colombia?  Philippines?  Federal drug testing on NY subway riders?  Tuskegee syphilis experiment?

How much worse?

[erfalf]

I think I recall stories of the gun running being traced back to the Bush administration, and that this administration's justice department was the one that uncovered it. Is this accurate or am I miss-remembering?

If it is accurate, why the need to cover up documents that the JD claims implicate the Bush administration? Everybody loves bashing Bush anyways, so why not just pile on.

[Teatownclown]

Lots of bodies here.  This may be worse than Watergate.

Gaspargate? Spazzgate?


Commentators from across the political spectrum expressed criticism after The Times revealed this week that a Fast and Furious-style gun program under President George W. Bush allowed guns to "walk" across the border into Mexico during 2006 and 2007.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/world_now/2011/10/mexico-wide-receiver-reaction-guns-weapons-left-right.html

Obama still wins in 2012. Seen the Bloomberg numbers?
Will you continue the tirades for 4 more years?

[Gaspar]

I think I recall stories of the gun running being traced back to the Bush administration, and that this administration's justice department was the one that uncovered it. Is this accurate or am I miss-remembering?

If it is accurate, why the need to cover up documents that the JD claims implicate the Bush administration? Everybody loves bashing Bush anyways, so why not just pile on.

Even, Holder made that argument.  Oh, but wait, he had to issue a retraction today, again.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/holder-retracts-claim-bush-team-knew-about-fast-and-furious/article/2500157

There was indeed a different STUPID program in 2006 called Wide Receiver.  450 guns were sold, and most made it into Mexico.  Only 9 arrests were made.  It was a failure, and who knows where those guns are now.  The ATF should indeed be investigated thoroughly for all such cases.  Wide Receiver was certainly not the first and there have been several smaller incidents of this scam in-between.

The difference is, these programs were carried out without the knowledge of the Justice Department, or as it now seems, the President. . .And when the programs failed there was no attempt to cover them up.  There was also no attempt to cover up the death of a US border agent as being associated with guns supplied to the cartel by the US government.

[Teatownclown]

Even, Holder made that argument.  Oh, but wait, he had to issue a retraction today, again.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/holder-retracts-claim-bush-team-knew-about-fast-and-furious/article/2500157

There was indeed a different STUPID program in 2006 called Wide Receiver.  450 guns were sold, and most made it into Mexico.  Only 9 arrests were made.  It was a failure, and who knows where those guns are now.  The ATF should indeed be investigated thoroughly for all such cases.  Wide Receiver was certainly not the first and there have been several smaller incidents of this scam in-between.

The difference is, these programs were carried out without the knowledge of the Justice Department, or as it now seems, the President. . .And when the programs failed there was no attempt to cover them up.  There was also no attempt to cover up the death of a US border agent as being associated with guns supplied to the cartel by the US government.

When bush does it, republicans dont care...when obama does something...its the worst thing ever....typical republican dishonesty!

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/06/13/498521/five-things-to-know-about-the-house-oversight-chairs-witchhunt-against-attorney-general-holder/
1. Issa Has No Case:
2. Reagan's Justice Department Agreed With Holder:
3. Law Enforcement Rejects Issa's Witchhunt:
4. Even Top Republicans Think Issa Goes Too Far:
5. Issa Is Fixated On A Conspiracy Theory:

[RecycleMichael]

I think the details about Eric Holder and "fast and furious" need to come out. I am unhappy that Obama invoked Executive Privilege.

I was mad when Dick Cheney used the same method to hide meetings with energy executives.

The public has a right to know.

Erfalf is with me on this. It might be the only thing we ever agree on.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Lots of bodies here.  This may be worse than Watergate.

There weren't any bodies at Watergate - just a few skeletons in the closet.

F & F and its predecessors should all be investigated and criminal activity brought to light and prosecuted.   Never happen.

But yes, Bush and Obama are both big time guilty on this thing.  And ATF acting badly goes back - way back - to the the 60's at least.

[Teatownclown]

The public has a right to know.

Giving comfort to our enemies?

[Conan71]

I think the details about Eric Holder and "fast and furious" need to come out. I am unhappy that Obama invoked Executive Privilege.

I was mad when Dick Cheney used the same method to hide meetings with energy executives.

The public has a right to know.

Erfalf is with me on this. It might be the only thing we ever agree on.

That's three of us in agreement so far.

[Hoss]

That's three of us in agreement so far.

Make it four.  I think EP should only apply in cases where National Security is absolutely at stake.  I don't see where this is the case.

[Gaspar]

Giving comfort to our enemies?

There are no enemies here.  At least that's the idea.

[Gaspar]

Congress agrees.

The House Government Oversight and Reform Committee has voted to hold Attorney General Eric Holder in contempt of Congress by a 23-17 vote.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/20/eric-holder-contempt-vote-fast-and-furious-darrel-issa_n_1612046.html

[dbacks fan]

That's three of us in agreement so far.

Coludn't agree more with this.

[Teatownclown]

There are no enemies here.  At least that's the idea.

Uh, then why the War On Drugs? You conservatives don't mind pithing away money if it's your doings.