You did not do that!

[Gaspar]

"If you've got a business, you didn't build that.  Somebody else made that happen."

I can't believe that an American president said this.



This is the sentiment President Obama is attempting to cultivate.  The war on the individual starts with disarming him of the responsibility achievement and reward that comes with it.   

How do you feel about this?

At the heart of western freedom and democracy is the belief that the individual man ... is the touchstone of value, and all society, groups, the state, exist for his benefit. Therefore the enlargement of liberty for individual human beings must be the supreme goal and abiding practice of any western society. – Robert F. Kennedy

[Conan71]

I'm sure Bill Harley,  William, Arthur, & Walter Davidson are all spinning in their graves.  Our country was founded on and is defined by rugged individualism, innovation, creativity, and entrepreneurship not food stamps, welfare, and unemployment benefits.

When did POTUS Obama start taking his talking points from crazy Uncle Joe?  Of course, what should we expect from the president who touts an all time high in food stamp recipients amongst his crowning achievements.

[RecycleMichael]

Show some context?

[RecycleMichael]

Here's the full context of what he said:

"We've already made a trillion dollars' worth of cuts. We can make some more cuts in programs that don't work, and make government work more efficiently...We can make another trillion or trillion-two, and what we then do is ask for the wealthy to pay a little bit more...

There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me, because they want to give something back. They know they didn't - look, if you've been successful, you didn't get there on your own. You didn't get there on your own. I'm always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something - there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.

If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you've got a business. you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn't get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don't do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.

So we say to ourselves, ever since the founding of this country, you know what, there are some things we do better together. That's how we funded the GI Bill. That's how we created the middle class. That's how we built the Golden Gate Bridge or the Hoover Dam. That's how we invented the Internet. That's how we sent a man to the moon. We rise or fall together as one nation and as one people, and that's the reason I'm running for President - because I still believe in that idea. You're not on your own, we're in this together."

[Gaspar]

Here's the full context of what he said:

"We've already made a trillion dollars' worth of cuts. We can make some more cuts in programs that don't work, and make government work more efficiently...We can make another trillion or trillion-two, and what we then do is ask for the wealthy to pay a little bit more...

There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me, because they want to give something back. They know they didn't - look, if you've been successful, you didn't get there on your own. You didn't get there on your own. I'm always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something - there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.

If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you've got a business. you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn't get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don't do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.

So we say to ourselves, ever since the founding of this country, you know what, there are some things we do better together. That's how we funded the GI Bill. That's how we created the middle class. That's how we built the Golden Gate Bridge or the Hoover Dam. That's how we invented the Internet. That's how we sent a man to the moon. We rise or fall together as one nation and as one people, and that's the reason I'm running for President - because I still believe in that idea. You're not on your own, we're in this together."

And you think that helps?

[carltonplace]

And you think that helps?

Yes it does. Most people don't pay for their own education when they are six, we all pay for the six year old to go to first grade. I didn't build the highway that gets me to my job everyday, I don't own the bus I take on days that I don't drive. I don't own a personal army to keep me safe and I don't have a fire hydrant on my property in case I have a fire.

[heironymouspasparagus]

And you think that helps?

And what is truly sad is that you don't!  Even guido has begrudgingly conceded he was not just one guy working alone.

You are working for some guy right now - did he actually do it all by himself??  If so, then that literally means he has only hired you as a 'welfare statement' since your contribution really didn't mean that that much to the effort to build the company.

[RecycleMichael]

And what is truly sad is that you don't! 

+1

[heironymouspasparagus]

I'm sure Bill Harley,  William, Arthur, & Walter Davidson are all spinning in their graves.  Our country was founded on and is defined by rugged individualism, innovation, creativity, and entrepreneurship not food stamps, welfare, and unemployment benefits.

The country was NOT founded on those things - it was founded on a strong effort by MANY people to break loose from Britain and work together to build a country.  Come on, Conan... don't go all Bill O'Reilly on us...


You picked probably the worst example you could have chosen - right there in your example, you have proven that there is no truly substantial "rugged individualism" - your example shows the effort starting with those FOUR guys!  Not an individual.  Followed immediately by a network of dealers, mechanics, sales people, and a whole host of what, by your claim, were superfluous people with no real value.  Another one of those "welfare statements"?

Here is a timeline.  William and Arthur made the first bike in 1903.  William AND Arthur.  Two years later they started hiring people - probably mostly worthless in the "rugged individualist" mode, but for some reason, they did it anyway.  Can't imagine C.H. Lang having much effect on the overall rugged individualist effort, but he opened a dealership in Chicago anyway...1904.  He did sell one of the first 3 bikes made...

http://www.harley-davidson.com/wcm/Content/Pages/H-D_History/history_1900s.jsp?locale=en_US


And we have an early dealership here in town - Myers-Duren.  Been around since about '14, if memory serves.

[AquaMan]

What little regard I have for Gaspar has faded into obscurity if he truly does not understand the context and the principles outlined in Obama's text. Truly American principles and well expressed.

But Conan? You should have seen thru this ruse. Even the quote 'spar used was ham fisted and twisted.

[Gaspar]

You're not getting it, or worse, you are getting it.

We all are reliant on some degree of infrastructure, and as a society, we choose how that is supported.  The infrastructure, and workforce is dependent on the innovators, entrepreneurs, and creative spirit of individuals, not the other way around.

To say that Steve Jobs or Henry Ford owes all of their success to the government and social mechanisms around them is disgusting.  To say that I owe my success to my employer is disgusting, and knowing him, he would feel the same way, otherwise I would not work for him.

Successful innovators give far more to society than society gives to them.  They are inspiration, and motivation to everyone around them.  They are income and security to those who work with them, and they are the support for the communities, governments and schools that surround them.  To say "That's not yours" is collectivist and fraudulent.

[AquaMan]

You're not getting it, or worse, you are getting it.

We all are reliant on some degree of infrastructure, and as a society, we choose how that is supported.  The infrastructure, and workforce is dependent on the innovators, entrepreneurs, and creative spirit of individuals, not the other way around.

To say that Steve Jobs or Henry Ford owes all of their success to the government and social mechanisms around them is disgusting.  To say that I owe my success to my employer is disgusting, and knowing him, he would feel the same way, otherwise I would not work for him.

Successful innovators give far more to society than society gives to them.  They are inspiration, and motivation to everyone around them.  They are income and security to those who work with them, and they are the support for the communities, governments and schools that surround them.  To say "That's not yours" is collectivist and fraudulent.

Go to a lot of motivational seminars, do you?

Nice collection of non-sequitors, straw men and posterisms.

What about the lowly workforce member who finds a better way to accomplish what their nutjob employers task them to do? Do they automatically get boosted to innovator status? Not likely. They're probably written up for it or fired.

[heironymouspasparagus]

To say that Steve Jobs or Henry Ford owes all of their success to the government and social mechanisms around them is disgusting.


To say that I owe my success to my employer is disgusting, and knowing him, he would feel the same way, otherwise I would not work for him.

How do you read these things and understand them in directly the opposite meaning?  (dyslexia?)

Nobody has said Jobs or Ford owe their success to the government... they DO however ow all their success to the people who came before them that they "stole" their main ideas from and made work better.   Again, NOT a "rugged individualist" effort.


And no one said you owe your success to your employer.  What I DID say was that your employer was NOT a rugged individualist who did it all on his own, but who owes HIS success to you and all the other people working at his company.  Kind of like exactly the opposite of what you seem to understand...

[Gaspar]

Go to a lot of motivational seminars, do you?

Nice collection of non-sequitors, straw men and posterisms.

What about the lowly workforce member who finds a better way to accomplish what their nutjob employers task them to do? Do they automatically get boosted to innovator status? Not likely. They're probably written up for it or fired.

Huh?

First of all, you immediately qualified someone as "lowly."  You then qualified the employer as "nutjob."  You make it very clear where you stand.

People who discover innovative ways of accomplishing things, typically do not get fired for it, and if they are, that type of person will likely succeed regardless.  It is those who believe they have no opportunity that have no opportunity.

Everything that is really great and inspiring is created by the individual who can labor in freedom. – Albert Einstein

[heironymouspasparagus]

What about the lowly workforce member who finds a better way to accomplish what their nutjob employers task them to do? Do they automatically get boosted to innovator status? Not likely. They're probably written up for it or fired.

The last two steps of every project....

Punishment of the innocent.

Rewards for the non-participants.