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The GOP war on voting

Started by RecycleMichael, July 26, 2012, 09:58:02 AM

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RecycleMichael

The GOP War on Voting

In a campaign supported by the Koch brothers, Republicans are working to prevent millions of Democrats from voting next year

As the nation gears up for the 2012 presidential election, Republican officials have launched an unprecedented, centrally coordinated campaign to suppress the elements of the Democratic vote that elected Barack Obama in 2008. Just as Dixiecrats once used poll taxes and literacy tests to bar black Southerners from voting, a new crop of GOP governors and state legislators has passed a series of seemingly disconnected measures that could prevent millions of students, minorities, immigrants, ex-convicts and the elderly from casting ballots. "What has happened this year is the most significant setback to voting rights in this country in a century," says Judith Browne-Dianis, who monitors barriers to voting as co-director of the Advancement Project, a civil rights organization based in Washington, D.C.

Republicans have long tried to drive Democratic voters away from the polls. "I don't want everybody to vote," the influential conservative activist Paul Weyrich told a gathering of evangelical leaders in 1980. "As a matter of fact, our leverage in the elections quite candidly goes up as the voting populace goes down." But since the 2010 election, thanks to a conservative advocacy group founded by Weyrich, the GOP's effort to disrupt voting rights has been more widespread and effective than ever. In a systematic campaign orchestrated by the American Legislative Exchange Council – and funded in part by David and Charles Koch, the billionaire brothers who bankrolled the Tea Party – 38 states introduced legislation this year designed to impede voters at every step of the electoral process.

All told, a dozen states have approved new obstacles to voting. Kansas and Alabama now require would-be voters to provide proof of citizenship before registering. Florida and Texas made it harder for groups like the League of Women Voters to register new voters. Maine repealed Election Day voter registration, which had been on the books since 1973. Five states – Florida, Georgia, Ohio, Tennessee and West Virginia – cut short their early voting periods. Florida and Iowa barred all ex-felons from the polls, disenfranchising thousands of previously eligible voters. And six states controlled by Republican governors and legislatures – Alabama, Kansas, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas and Wisconsin – will require voters to produce a government-issued ID before casting ballots. More than 10 percent of U.S. citizens lack such identification, and the numbers are even higher among constituencies that traditionally lean Democratic – including 18 percent of young voters and 25 percent of African-Americans.

Taken together, such measures could significantly dampen the Democratic turnout next year – perhaps enough to shift the outcome in favor of the GOP. "One of the most pervasive political movements going on outside Washington today is the disciplined, passionate, determined effort of Republican governors and legislators to keep most of you from voting next time," Bill Clinton told a group of student activists in July. "Why is all of this going on? This is not rocket science. They are trying to make the 2012 electorate look more like the 2010 electorate than the 2008 electorate" – a reference to the dominance of the Tea Party last year, compared to the millions of students and minorities who turned out for Obama. "There has never been in my lifetime, since we got rid of the poll tax and all the Jim Crow burdens on voting, the determined effort to limit the franchise that we see today."

To hear Republicans tell it, they are waging a virtuous campaign to crack down on rampant voter fraud – a curious position for a party that managed to seize control of the White House in 2000 despite having lost the popular vote. After taking power, the Bush administration declared war on voter fraud, making it a "top priority" for federal prosecutors. In 2006, the Justice Department fired two U.S. attorneys who refused to pursue trumped-up cases of voter fraud in New Mexico and Washington, and Karl Rove called illegal voting "an enormous and growing problem." In parts of America, he told the Republican National Lawyers Association, "we are beginning to look like we have elections like those run in countries where the guys in charge are colonels in mirrored sunglasses." According to the GOP, community organizers like ACORN were actively recruiting armies of fake voters to misrepresent themselves at the polls and cast illegal ballots for the Democrats.

Even at the time, there was no evidence to back up such outlandish claims. A major probe by the Justice Department between 2002 and 2007 failed to prosecute a single person for going to the polls and impersonating an eligible voter, which the anti-fraud laws are supposedly designed to stop. Out of the 300 million votes cast in that period, federal prosecutors convicted only 86 people for voter fraud – and many of the cases involved immigrants and former felons who were simply unaware of their ineligibility. A much-hyped investigation in Wisconsin, meanwhile, led to the prosecution of only .0007 percent of the local electorate for alleged voter fraud. "Our democracy is under siege from an enemy so small it could be hiding anywhere," joked Stephen Colbert. A 2007 report by the Brennan Center for Justice, a leading advocate for voting rights at the New York University School of Law, quantified the problem in stark terms. "It is more likely that an individual will be struck by lightning," the report calculated, "than that he will impersonate another voter at the polls."

GOP outcries over the phantom menace of voter fraud escalated after 2008, when Obama's candidacy attracted historic numbers of first-time voters. In the 29 states that record party affiliation, roughly two-thirds of new voters registered as Democrats in 2007 and 2008 – and Obama won nearly 70 percent of their votes. In Florida alone, Democrats added more than 600,000 new voters in the run-up to the 2008 election, and those who went to the polls favored Obama over John McCain by 19 points. "This latest flood of attacks on voting rights is a direct shot at the communities that came out in historic numbers for the first time in 2008 and put Obama over the top," says Tova Wang, an elections-reform expert at Demos, a progressive think tank.

No one has done more to stir up fears about the manufactured threat of voter fraud than Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach, a top adviser in the Bush Justice Department who has become a rising star in the GOP. "We need a Kris Kobach in every state," declared Michelle Malkin, the conservative pundit. This year, Kobach successfully fought for a law requiring every Kansan to show proof of citizenship in order to vote – even though the state prosecuted only one case of voter fraud in the past five years. The new restriction fused anti-immigrant hysteria with voter-fraud paranoia. "In Kansas, the illegal registration of alien voters has become pervasive," Kobach claimed, offering no substantiating evidence.

Kobach also asserted that dead people were casting ballots, singling out a deceased Kansan named Alfred K. Brewer as one such zombie voter. There was only one problem: Brewer was still very much alive. The Wichita Eagle found him working in his front yard. "I don't think this is heaven," Brewer told the paper. "Not when I'm raking leaves."

Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-gop-war-on-voting-20110830#ixzz21jzKecSv
Power is nothing till you use it.

RecycleMichael

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/07/republican-virtue-and-the-fraud-of-voter-fraud/260306/

Republican Virtue and the Fraud of Voter FraudBy Ta-Nehisi Coates

Jul 25 2012,

Ezra Klein guest-hosted for Rachel Maddow last night and offered a beautiful primer on the mythical issue of our era:
 
It's worth watching twice. Ezra makes a great point about the "newness" of voter ID laws, and the incredible paucity of claims. Pennsylvania officials have the luxury of having confessed that there has no proof of voter fraud:

The state signed a stipulation agreement with lawyers for the plaintiffs which acknowledges there "have been no investigations or prosecutions of in-person voter fraud in Pennsylvania; and the parties do not have direct personal knowledge of any such investigations or prosecutions in other states."

... and having confessed to the laws true purpose:

Pennsylvania House Majority Leader Mike Turzai (R) said that the voter ID law passed by the legislature would help deliver the state for Mitt Romney in November. "Pro-Second Amendment? The Castle Doctrine, it's done. First pro-life legislation -- abortion facility regulations -- in 22 years, done. Voter ID, which is gonna allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania, done," Turzai said at this weekend's Republican State Committee meeting ....

One thing to understand is that while voter ID laws are new, attempting to restrict the vote isn't. One corollary to America's historically broad franchise is a deep-seated worry about the maintenance of republican virtue among franchise-holders. Unfortunately the same people who pioneered the notion of "republican virtue" tended to be racist and generally believed that "virtue" could be detected, and ensured, through the most superficial means. This is the context for understanding the vote being restricted to property-owning white men. Property represents a stake in society. Whiteness represents not having the instincts of a baboon. And maleness, of course, means the ability to resist fainting twice a day.

The notion that only certain people should be able to vote is still with us today. In many states, we strip felons of their voting rights because we believe they have shown themselves to not be worthy of the vote, to be lacking in "republican virtue." I'm actually sorry that liberals have mostly abandoned this tradition, and left it to demagogues and white populists. The founders were wrong about virtue being the strict province of white males, but they were deeply wise in their sense that democracies don't run on autopilot. If a law were passed today making literacy illegal, I suspect that the quality of our democracy would quickly decline.

Frankly, I think too little is said today about "republican virtue." I don't think liberals have yet gotten to the point where we can convincingly invoke patriotism, or even a broader nationalism. Passing off quackery as science, and passing off quackery as American history injures our children, thus injuring our citizens, thus injuring our democracy. I think about our need to be perpetually entertained and I worry. I think about our comfort with drones and I worry. A serious conversation about "republican virtue" involves, necessarily, some threat to individual rights. I don't know where that conversation goes. But I wish it were on the table.
Power is nothing till you use it.

Gaspar

ID laws are designed to protect the voting privilege, by restricting it only to people eligible to vote.  If there was another way, perhaps fingerprint scan, or other technology, than great, but for now the best way is through identification document, something that most people have or can easily acquire at no cost.

As for "Right" to vote.  I have yet to find that established in our constitution.  Voting is a privilege extended to those eligible and governed by the states.  Now the constitution and it's amendments does clearly state that you cannot deny people the "right" to vote based on numerous criteria (amendments 15,17,19,23,24,26), but it leaves the establishment of voting eligibility up to the individual states, and purposefully does not establish the tenants of an actual "Right to Vote."

I may be convinced that perhaps this should be changed and an amendment establishing the right to vote should be added to the constitution for the sole purpose of standardizing what has become an increasingly messy process that confuses people.  This certainly constitutes a role of government, and a role that should be managed on the federal level.  After all, the security of our election process is as important as national defense.

When attacked by a mob of clowns, always go for the juggler.

AquaMan

I was not aware of the "republican virtue" concept. Maybe by other words. But I am aware of the implications of the last paragraph. By keeping the populace fairly ignorant of the protections the founding fathers included in our system, including the ability to change who has the right to vote, the population is unable to defend against abuses of those protections. They don't even know that they are being abused. In that regard to promote the agenda, it is important to keep public education at a low performing level through general underfunding so that leaders may be culled from the more doctrinaire private schools to ensure the cycle continues.

The final result of this limitation of who has the correct credentials to be considered "voter worthy" is the populace feels exploited, hopeless, second class, and most importantly, lacking in representation. They then find justification for criminal behavior or release through drugs/alcohol and the predictable response from the suburban voting class is more repression, more prisons and less freedoms. As the British found out, this leads to revolution.

I strongly suggest that if you have never had to rely on a wage slave job as an adult that you take the time to meet and talk with those who have. Go hang out at a day labor camp and share with those poor souls who are treated like vermin. Go over to the Salvation Army downtown in the afternoon if your dare. Drop by the downtown library and note who the primary users are and what they are doing on their computer screens or reading in print. Go apply for one of the temporary trash pick up jobs and note your treatment. They won't even offer their hands to shake like any other businessman would because they consider these workers as diseased. Then read one of Gaspar's posts and see if they make sense. We are sowing the seeds of revolution and disguising them as protection from our basic fears.
onward...through the fog

Conan71

Quote from: AquaMan on July 26, 2012, 10:36:00 AM

I strongly suggest that if you have never had to rely on a wage slave job as an adult that you take the time to meet and talk with those who have. Go hang out at a day labor camp and share with those poor souls who are treated like vermin. Go over to the Salvation Army downtown in the afternoon if your dare. Drop by the downtown library and note who the primary users are and what they are doing on their computer screens or reading in print. Go apply for one of the temporary trash pick up jobs and note your treatment. They won't even offer their hands to shake like any other businessman would because they consider these workers as diseased. Then read one of Gaspar's posts and see if they make sense. We are sowing the seeds of revolution and disguising them as protection from our basic fears.

WTH has that got to do with voter's rights?  To work day labor or a "slave job" one must have a photo ID.  To get government assistance of any sort requires- you guess it- identifying documents!

"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first" -Ronald Reagan

AquaMan

Quote from: Conan71 on July 26, 2012, 11:02:32 AM
WTH has that got to do with voter's rights?  To work day labor or a "slave job" one must have a photo ID.  To get government assistance of any sort requires- you guess it- identifying documents!



My remarks are in context with the first two posts. I even referenced the last paragraph of the second post.
onward...through the fog

joiei

And we have had exactly how many acts of voter fraud reported and prosecuted in Oklahoma in the last 20 years?
It's hard being a Diamond in a rhinestone world.

Gaspar

Quote from: Conan71 on July 26, 2012, 11:02:32 AM
WTH has that got to do with voter's rights?  To work day labor or a "slave job" one must have a photo ID.  To get government assistance of any sort requires- you guess it- identifying documents!

Shhh. He's on a role.

QuoteI strongly suggest that if you have never had to rely on a wage slave job as an adult that you take the time to meet and talk with those who have. Go hang out at a day labor camp and share with those poor souls who are treated like vermin. Go over to the Salvation Army downtown in the afternoon if your dare. Drop by the downtown library and note who the primary users are and what they are doing on their computer screens or reading in print. Go apply for one of the temporary trash pick up jobs and note your treatment. They won't even offer their hands to shake like any other businessman would because they consider these workers as diseased. Then read one of Gaspar's posts and see if they make sense. We are sowing the seeds of revolution and disguising them as protection from our basic fears.

First, I didn't realize we have labor camps?  :D

Second, when I was young, I did everything from trash pickup, to loading rail-road ties, to fueling airplanes.  My co-workers even taught me to speak Spanish.  Never felt mistreated, but it was exhausting, and rather unrewarding, so I moved on.   

When I worked pitching railroad ties, I was about crippled with fatigue at the end of the day.  I used to admire many of the homes where I delivered them, but it never occurred to me or my co-workers to start a revolution because we had to work so hard or get so dirty. When I fueled aircraft and saw the rich guys in their private planes, I admired their success.  They never treated me poorly even though I was filthy and smelt of Jet-A, they still shook my hand when I offered it.  It never occurred to me to revolt because I drove a 22 year old car and couldn't' afford my own helicopter.

I was taught that if I wanted something, it was my responsibility to plot the necessary course to achieve it.  The poverty Aqua speaks of is a symptom of the disease.  To treat it you must identify the root cause.  Attacking the symptom only prolongs the disease. 

If "the poor" were to rise up and demand free this and free that, and big houses, and fast cars, it would do little to actually remedy their situation.  "Poor" is, and should be a transient state of being, not a permanent class.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with being poor, as long as there is a plan to overcome it.  If there are social, educational, or cultural barriers to escaping poverty, those are what deserve attention.

I suppose we are just cut of different cloth. I wish Aqua good luck storming the castle.  Viva la revolution!

Back on subject. . .even when I was young and working menial jobs, I had to have an ID.  Most required a driver's license too.  All required a social security #.  Before I had a bank account I used to go to the Check Cashing place to cash my paycheck.  They too required a photo id.  If there are some people who are able to function in modern society without any form of ID, that's an excellent place for Aqua to start improving the condition of "the poor."  A program that provided transportation and funding so that poor people could get IDs would greatly increase their chances of obtaining employment and therefore escaping poverty.

Perhaps rather than revolution, solid steps could be made at attacking the root causes of that poverty instead decrying the symptom?
When attacked by a mob of clowns, always go for the juggler.

AquaMan

Your comprehension skills are diminishing. I said "as an adult". Your childhood and teenager jobs don't qualify.

I don't subscribe to revolution to change politics. That is your effort to marginalize my post. Paint me as some sort of revolutionary Socialist. Fail. I do however, recognize the root causes and behaviors that foment them. We are quickly checking off all the boxes. Read the post from Varada about how the smallest of demonstrations was handled by NYC. Very sobering. We quash dissent these days and covet conformity.

You keep ignoring the facts put in front of you. Its easier that way isn't it? There is no widespread, documented abuse of voting registration in America. We have voted without DL's and photo ID's for over a couple hundred years. Up to 3/4 of a million voters in Pennsylvania do not have drivers license ID's or photo ID's and won't seek them. They are not going to spend money, travel the distances necessary to get something they don't think they need. Yet they still work. They take cabs, they ride bikes, they walk and not all of them need to go get food stamps, welfare or other poor people stuff. Cause they aren't poor in the sense you conceive. They live in a cash society, are leery of government, are suspicious of banks, cops, and politics. I have a friend in that demo that received a huge settlement from a lawsuit. The only thing he uses a bank for is the safe deposit box to put the cash in. They trust their church. They network and they rely on family. When the result of this effort serves to eliminate 750,000 voters in one state alone and the state Republican majority leader brags that he has delivered his state to Romney by doing so, you would think its obvious whats happening. But like I said, you have to be able to see the facts.

Reading yours and Conan's post reminds me. The very people who most need to expose themselves to these groups is the least likely to do so. And no, just working around them in a white collar position doesn't qualify. They will respect you more than you do them.

onward...through the fog

Gaspar

Quote from: AquaMan on July 26, 2012, 01:38:43 PM
Your comprehension skills are diminishing. I said "as an adult". Your childhood and teenager jobs don't qualify.
Why?


I don't subscribe to revolution to change politics. That is your effort to marginalize my post. Paint me as some sort of revolutionary Socialist. Fail. I do however, recognize the root causes and behaviors that foment them. We are quickly checking off all the boxes. Read the post from Varada about how the smallest of demonstrations was handled by NYC. Very sobering. We quash dissent these days and covet conformity.

You keep ignoring the facts put in front of you. Its easier that way isn't it? There is no widespread, documented abuse of voting registration in America. We have voted without DL's and photo ID's for over a couple hundred years. Up to 3/4 of a million voters in Pennsylvania do not have drivers license ID's or photo ID's and won't seek them. They are not going to spend money, travel the distances necessary to get something they don't think they need. Yet they still work. They take cabs, they ride bikes, they walk and not all of them need to go get food stamps, welfare or other poor people stuff. Cause they aren't poor in the sense you conceive. They live in a cash society, are leery of government, are suspicious of banks, cops, and politics. I have a friend in that demo that received a huge settlement from a lawsuit. The only thing he uses a bank for is the safe deposit box to put the cash in.
How does he access his safe deposit box?  Banks require photo ID to grant access.

They trust their church. They network and they rely on family. When the result of this effort serves to eliminate 750,000 voters in one state alone and the state Republican majority leader brags that he has delivered his state to Romney by doing so, you would think its obvious whats happening. But like I said, you have to be able to see the facts.
The fact is that we do a very poor job of identifying, and prosecuting voter fraud nationwide. We have no mechanism to regulate elections, and we have grown to a point where we need to engage some system to insure vote integrity.  

Reading yours and Conan's post reminds me. The very people who most need to expose themselves to these groups is the least likely to do so. And no, just working around them in a white collar position doesn't qualify. They will respect you more than you do them.



Each election, without exception, results in questions related to vote integrity.  Each count and recount returns statistically insignificant but discrepant numbers that raise questions.  Each state poses it's own set of rules that affect citizens differently, providing advantages for some and disadvantages for others.  The system needs to be standardized, secured, and the results beyond reproach.  No one should feel they need to question election results in this country, that should be a point of pride for us.  If it is necessary for the federal government to issue voter credentials free of charge to every eligible voter, then that is what must be done.  Why is that so distasteful?
When attacked by a mob of clowns, always go for the juggler.

Conan71

And why is it that liberals are so insulting toward minorities making it look like they are too stupid, lazy, and poor to obtain the necessary ID?

Texas AG weighs in on the issue and says in spite of claims to the contrary, minority voter participation has increased as a result of voter ID laws.  If community activist groups have no problem busing people to the polls while providing voter suggestion guides, I submit they could just as easily provide transportation to those people to get the proper identification to vote.

QuoteSome partisans use blustery rhetoric against Texas' voter ID law. But when viewed under a courtroom microscope — under oath — personal beliefs and opinions give way to the proven facts about voter ID: Voter fraud is real, voter ID doesn't suppress votes, and the U.S. Supreme Court has already approved voter ID as a legal, nondiscriminatory response to voter fraud.

As Texas' attorney general, I've prosecuted voter fraud across the state, including people who voted using dead people's names; a candidate who unlawfully registered ineligible foreign nationals to vote; a man who voted twice on Election Day; an election worker who attempted to vote for someone else with the same last name; and a person who used someone else's registration card to vote. In addition to the many cases my office has prosecuted, other county, state and federal authorities have handled countless voter fraud investigations.

The recent voter ID trial revealed even more disturbing voter fraud. Texas has more than 50,000 dead people registered to vote. Even worse, at least 239 dead people voted in the May election — 213 of them in person. State Sen. Tommy Williams testified that ballots have been cast for his long-deceased grandfather. A person even attempted to vote for an inmate.

State Reps. Jose Aliseda and Aaron Peña testified that South Texas is plagued with voter fraud. Rep. Aliseda also testified that non-citizens voted in Bee County elections. In the past year, hundreds of people who claimed they were non-citizens had to be removed from the voter rolls.

Voter ID critics turn a blind eye to illegal voting and instead rail against voter ID as discriminatory and disenfranchising. The facts prove otherwise. Opponents of voter ID were unable to produce a single Texan who would be unable to vote because of the voter ID law. States with voter ID laws have seen minority vote participation increase, not decrease. Texas makes it easy to comply with the law by providing a free photo ID to any eligible voter who doesn't have one. Also, voters who are disabled or older than 65 can vote by mail — so they can vote without a photo ID.

Even the star witness hired to testify against Texas' voter ID law agrees that photo ID laws prevent "almost no one" from voting and has stated that the voting rights concerns raised by partisans who oppose voter ID laws are "overblown." That star witness also agrees that comparing voter ID laws to Jim Crow and poll tax laws is unjustified.

Just four years ago, the U.S. Supreme Court agreed that voter ID laws are nondiscriminatory and perfectly constitutional. The high court held that even in states unable to prove voter impersonation, voter ID laws are justified by the need to protect the integrity of the election process. The court emphasized that the inconvenience of gathering all the required documents, going to the department of motor vehicles, and posing for a photo is simply not an infringement on the right to vote.

Voter ID laws do not prevent legal votes. Instead, they ensure legal votes are not diluted by illegal ones. Fraudulent voting must be stopped, and voter ID laws will help us stop it.

Greg Abbott is attorney general of Texas.


Read more: http://www.mysanantonio.com/opinion/commentary/article/Voter-ID-does-not-suppress-votes-3735206.php#ixzz21l02RO3V
"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first" -Ronald Reagan

Gaspar

Quote from: Conan71 on July 26, 2012, 02:12:40 PM
And why is it that liberals are so insulting toward minorities making it look like they are too stupid, lazy, and poor to obtain the necessary ID?

Texas AG weighs in on the issue and says in spite of claims to the contrary, minority voter participation has increased as a result of voter ID laws.  If community activist groups have no problem busing people to the polls while providing voter suggestion guides, I submit they could just as easily provide transportation to those people to get the proper identification to vote.


Additionally that would probably help some of those same people struggling to find a job.  Two birds, one stone.  Helping people acquire the tools for success and participation in self government.  Excellent idea!
When attacked by a mob of clowns, always go for the juggler.

Conan71

Quote from: Gaspar on July 26, 2012, 02:42:53 PM
Additionally that would probably help some of those same people struggling to find a job.  Two birds, one stone.  Helping people acquire the tools for success and participation in self government.  Excellent idea!

That's just crazy talk Gaspar!  You are hearing smile again!
"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first" -Ronald Reagan

AquaMan

Quote from: Gaspar on July 26, 2012, 02:03:37 PM
Each election, without exception, results in questions related to vote integrity.  Each count and recount returns statistically insignificant but discrepant numbers that raise questions.  Each state poses it's own set of rules that affect citizens differently, providing advantages for some and disadvantages for others.  The system needs to be standardized, secured, and the results beyond reproach.  No one should feel they need to question election results in this country, that should be a point of pride for us.  If it is necessary for the federal government to issue voter credentials free of charge to every eligible voter, then that is what must be done.  Why is that so distasteful?

I can't make this quote thing work so I'll just muddle through.

You aren't even asking the correct questions in your red highlighted answers. Of course in context of my post adult wage slaves are quite different from a teenager working for minimum wage. Not as much expected from a teenager, they don't take the job seriously because they either have a safety net (family) or are working temporarily till finishing high school or going to college. They live for the moment. Big difference from a guy who is responsible for himself, his family and whose job security is paramount. He is also treated by his employer in a different manner.

My friend with the safety deposit box does have a DL. He doesn't vote though and thinks the government has tried to decimate his race by introducing street drugs. Not an uncommon belief in his culture. The point was the description of his culture. Don't be so narrow in your reading.

The fact is that we do a very poor job of identifying, and prosecuting voter fraud nationwide. We have no mechanism to regulate elections, and we have grown to a point where we need to engage some system to insure vote integrity.   How do you know we do a poor job? Where are the specific indicators of this failure? If they are not being prosecuted...why? Where is the indication that vote integrity is missing? How in the world have we survived two centuries of these so called failures? In fact elections are regulated, just not to the satisfaction of a small subset of the process. If it were truly unregulated and suspect the entire Congress, all parties to the system and the law enforcement agencies would ALL sign off on this movement. You are in fact trying to justify something that seems logical and apparent to all. It is neither.

I have voted since I was 18 and until the last primary I have never been asked for a DL, a Photo ID or a SS card even though I dutifully bring them along with my registration card every single time. They asked my name. They asked my party affiliation. They asked my address. If I was able to successfully answer all three the odds are I was that guy. If I had wanted to deceive them no law could stop me. You simply have to have some faith.

Your last paragraph is perplexing having read your previous Libertarian, small government posts. Its not that i disagree with it. It would mean a large expenditure for a program that would be national and expensive, has no demonstrated need in fact, and that now belongs to each state to administer. A power grab by the Feds to solve a problem that doesn't exist and creates a new bureaucracy. So we can all have a good feeling about voting. Even in Florida. Just what DO you believe in?
onward...through the fog

nathanm

Quote from: Conan71 on July 26, 2012, 11:02:32 AM
To work day labor or a "slave job" one must have a photo ID.  To get government assistance of any sort requires- you guess it- identifying documents!

You need a social security card or other proof of work eligibility, presuming your employer follows the law. You do not need a photo ID. And it's not because they're stupid or lazy, it's because there are a lot of hoops that must be jumped through to get a photo ID. It's not nearly as easy as you make it seem:

Quote
Let's say your're one of my homeless patients who's interested in voting. You don't have a photo ID, so I send you to one of the social workers on staff, and she refers you to a PennDOT location (Bus fare: $2). Well, don't spend those $2 just yet there, friend, because you need the following documentation to get your ID:

    To obtain a Pennsylvania Photo Identification card, an individual needs to visit a Pennsylvania Department of Transportation Driver License Center with a completed Application for an Initial Photo Identification Card; form DL-54A, and the following:



    Social Security Card

    AND

    One of the following:
    Certificate of U.S. Citizenship
    Certificate of Naturalization
    Valid U.S. Passport
    Birth Certificate with a raised seal


    PLUS


    Two proofs of *residency such as lease agreements, current utility bills, mortgage documents, W-2 form, tax records

Let's start with your social security card. Well, four months ago PennDOT broke up your homeless encampment. You were away so they took your tent, your blankets, all your clothing, and, most importantly, your papers. Now how are you going to prove who you are?

Let's start by getting you a new copy of your social security card. Replacements are free, but you need to prove your identity and your citizenship status to get one, which requires (at the very least) a certified copy of a medical record and a birth certificate. The medical record is easy enough-- you had an abscess drained at the ER just last week and can go get a free copy there (Bus fare: $2). The birth certificate is more tricky. Because you don't have a photo ID, you need to have a family member, social worker, or other " eligible requestor" vouch for you, and maybe also lend you the $10 processing fee. Of course, you'll also need two documents with your name and address on them. OOPS YOU'RE HOMELESS. SORRY.

But for the sake of completeness, let's continue with our thought experiment. Maybe the needle exchange allows you to use their mailing address and you, somehow, manage to generate two pieces of official mail with your name on them. You send that stuff in (Stamp: $0.44) and wait a couple weeks. The birth certificate arrives, so you take that, along with a couple pieces of junk mail to the social security office (Bus fare: $2), and they give you a new card. Now you're cooking with gas. It's pretty expensive gas, considering that you've already spent $14.44 to get to this point (damn Obama!). But here you are. You, with your birth certificate, your social security card, and a few pieces of what everyone else calls "junk mail" but is all of a sudden so precious that THREE government agencies need to see it. Time to go down to PennDOT and claim what's rightfully yours (Bus fare: $2).

You arrive at the office, too excited to contain yourself. It's time for you to exercise your franchise. You wait in line for an hour and eventually find yourself standing in front of a PennDOT representative. You try not to think of their colleagues tearing apart your campsite under the bridge as you smile and say, "I'm here to get my voter ID."

"That'll be $13.50," says the clerk. AH AH AH YOU DIDN'T SAY THE MAGIC WORD yt ! See, you were supposed to say the word "free" in order to have your fee waived. Saying anything other than "I need a free ID so that I can vote" could be interpreted as "please charge me $13.50 for something that should have been free." Well, you didn't need that $13.50 anyway, just like you didn't need the $10 for your replacement birth certificate or the $6 you spent on bus fare. You're an unemployed homeless person, so it was totally reasonable for you to pay $29.50 and spend several days to get your free voter ID.

Congratulations. You've made it. Now go exercise your franchise. Or maybe you didn't have $13.50 and didn't make it. Well, here's hoping that there are folks out there who will exercise their franchises with your interests in mind. Without wanting to come off as harsh, your prospects do not look so good.

And once again, I'm looking for the evidence of widespread fraud by voters. If you want to secure the voting system, how about making the bucking electronic machines print out the damn ballot so it can be verified by the voter and usefully recounted later? Making it simple and easy to change tens of thousands or even millions of votes in one whack is a much bigger threat to our system of government than ineligible individuals attempting to vote.

It's a little bit funny how everything comes down to "I'm responsible but those people are not, so they should be punished" lately.
"Labor is prior to and independent of capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration" --Abraham Lincoln