American Airline$ -> how much money to save Tulsa jobs?

[cannon_fodder]

In light of recent proposals I began wondering how much money Tulsa has given American airlines in the last decade to save jobs and what effect that has had.  Off to the internet I go...

AA come to Tulsa in 1946.  Major multi-million dollar expansions took place in the 1950's, 60's, 70's, and 1980's without tax payer money.  The airline industry began a decline in 1991.  I cannot find that the airline has paid for a major improvement in Tulsa since then.

At the start of 2003 American Airlines employed nearly 10,000 people in Tulsa.

Vision 2025 gave American Airlines $22,300,000.00 to buy equipment in order to not close the base and save Tulsa jobs – starting in 2003

In 2007 the State of Oklahoma and the City of Tulsa teamed up to give American Airlines another $10,000,000 (4.3mil and 5.7mil respectively) in order to build a new hanger and save jobs but bringing permanent work to Tulsa.

Today American Airlines employs approximately 7,000 in Tulsa.  3,000 less than when we started handing over millions of dollars.

http://www.vision2025.info/project.php?project=moredetail&category=americanairlines
http://www.tulsaworld.com/webextra/continuingcoverage/default.aspx/American_Airlines/34
http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/article.aspx?subjectid=45&articleid=20120821_46_E1_Nearly757638
http://www.tulsabeacon.com/?p=6205

American Airlines seems to be a good employer.  They are important to the local economy.  They appear to be a good corporate citizen.  I do not hate American airlines or have any ill-will towards them.  I hope they are successful and grow their base in Tulsa.  But...

It appears they have become addicted to the tax payer trough.  With no guarantees of saving jobs we hand over millions of dollars.  If we buy them new equipment and build them a new hanger (as well as subsidizing a quality work force) and they still continue to cut jobs... how far do we go?

If American says give me another $50mil or we are leaving – do you succumb?  If we do, how much do we give to Bok when they threaten to move to OKC?  How much do we give to Nordam or OneOK?  If you threaten to leave you get something... if you are a good corporate resident of Tulsa you don't.

I'm conflicting and seeking perspective.  I want what's best for Tulsa (to hell with principles of free markets and no corporate welfare)... but in the long run is redistributing tax payer money to corporations best?  Is letting good jobs go best when "everyone else is doing it?"

I believe our tactic of providing infrastructure for corporate as well as TIF and other tax incentives is a better way than other handouts, but I still have my doubts.

Thoughts?

[carltonplace]

So over 9 years the Tulsa tax payers have indirectly paid AA employees $3,328 per employee.

[Conan71]

So over 9 years the Tulsa tax payers have indirectly paid AA employees $3,328 per employee.

Damn, at $30 a copy, that works out to about 110 lawn mowings. 

Ed, what do you have going on this weekend?

[heironymouspasparagus]

So over 9 years the Tulsa tax payers have indirectly paid AA employees $3,328 per employee.

No.  Not at all.  Over 9 years Tulsa tax payers have directly paid AA management $3,328 per employee that actually went to management annual bonuses.  While the employees were actually enjoying the "benefit" of also giving concessions to same management.

Edit; the bonuses total over $300 million for the 4 years previous to 2011.

[Gaspar]

So, I will state again.  We continue to award tax payer money to a business that engages in failing management. 

Yes, we should be thankful for the jobs that American provides, but in turn, as a business it is their responsibility to support the communities that provide them with a workforce.  According to their website over the last ten years they've spent $2.4 billion in airport and facility infrastructure improvements is Las Angeles, New York, Brazil, San Francisco, Mexico City, and London.  They've spent hundreds of millions in just the last few years. Reviewing the community involvement portion of their website, they cite millions of dollars in activities supporting the various communities that they operate in.  Unfortunately that does not include Tulsa.

It is their prerogative to spend corporate funds where they see fit.  It is also their prerogative and the responsibility of their stockholders to promote and reward management as they see fit.  It is not our responsibility to support them.  If they can spend hundreds of millions on facilities in other communities in a down economy as they themselves are facing bankruptcy, I see no need for us to shower them with cash from our pockets.

[Teatownclown]

No.  Not at all.  Over 9 years Tulsa tax payers have directly paid AA management $3,328 per employee that actually went to management annual bonuses.  While the employees were actually enjoying the "benefit" of also giving concessions to same management.

Edit; the bonuses total over $300 million for the 4 years previous to 2011.

Wow. Thanks Heir.

I read in TW yesterday %40 of Tulsan's live paycheck to paycheck. So, the question I want answered is how did this money trickle down find it's way through the local economy and create associated businesses? Also, do these associated businesses have an impact on the quality of our air as well as employment? (still waiting on a cost/benefit analysis)

edit: Gassie, apparently Corporate welfare is ok with the RINO's in the Chamber. But please, none for their sheeple.

[cannon_fodder]

Tea- i intentionally avoided making this a dem/rep or liberal/conservative debate.  Both play the corporate welfare game and both talk about hating it.  Let that angle be, please.

[Teatownclown]

Tea- i intentionally avoided making this a dem/rep or liberal/conservative debate.  Both play the corporate welfare game and both talk about hating it.  Let that angle be, please.

I don't need to be lectured, Sparticus. I was responding to Gaspar's note. You couldn't answer my questions.

Thanks for showing up though....

[RecycleMichael]

I agree with cannon fodder that this is not a partisan issue. Let's try to stay focused on the facts and not TeatownClown's effort to paint that everything is connected to party politics.

[Teatownclown]

I agree with cannon fodder that this is not a partisan issue. Let's try to stay focused on the facts and not TeatownClown's effort to paint that everything is connected to party politics.

That's a fat example of calling the kettle black....RM, where might I be dividing this issue down political lines? A mere comment does not over rule the fact that you are a chamber maid. And I am a truth teller.

[DTowner]

It would also be interesting to compare the drop in number of flights AA offers out of Tulsa Int'l over that same 10 year period.  I used to fly AA a lot, but I rarely fly them anymore because I can usually get a more convenient or direct flight to either coast on United/Continental and use SW for most flights in the, well, southwest.

Make no mistake, the airline industry business model has struggled to adapt to the deregulated environment of the past 30+ years in general, but particluarly the last 11 years since 9/11.  Every major surviving airline but for SW has gone through bankruptcy, with AA being the last.

But AA clearly played the various communities in which it had maintenance bases to see who would give them the most money.  The KC base (acquired with TWA) disappeared and it became a battle between Ft. Worth and Tulsa.  If the conditions of the Tulsa/airport authority-owned buildings have slipped as much as reported, then I think we need to step up and invest in those assets for AA or whoever we try to lease them to if AA goes away.  That's very different than simply again buying equipment and tools for a private company and hoping they love us back in return. 

[RecycleMichael]

...I am a truth teller.

You are more like a bank teller handing out counterfeit bills.

[Ed W]

Damn, at $30 a copy, that works out to about 110 lawn mowings. 

Ed, what do you have going on this weekend?

When I started with the company 25 years ago, I think there were about 100,000 employees nationwide.  That may be down to 70,000 or so now, but I could be wrong.  My shop alone shrank from about 120 jobs to half of that. 

There are several reasons for the reduction.  In avionics, newer electronics do more with less.  They're more reliable than the old 727 and DC-10 stuff, so maintenance is reduced.  Engines and airframes, however, are just as labor intensive as ever.  They're essentially hand crafted.  Between the reductions in force and the upcoming retirements of many AA workers, there will be a labor shortage out there quite soon.  The average age of the work force on the base is in the low to mid 50s. 

As for handing over tax monies to AA, I'll reserve judgement on that for now.  I'm clearly unwilling to trust AA management, but that comes from long experience watching their actions belie their words.  I am not an impartial observer.

And as for this weekend, Conan, I'll be out taking photos somewhere, perhaps at the Glow Run.  I certainly don't want to cut someone's grass when I haven't cut my own for a very long time.  There are a few pathetic green shoots coming up near the infamous weed flower garden that SWMBO put in.  It would be cruel to hack them down with the mower.  They're very lonely.

[Red Arrow]

There are a few pathetic green shoots coming up near the infamous weed flower garden that SWMBO put in.  It would be cruel to hack them down with the mower.  They're very lonely.

Roundup.

[TeeDub]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505123_162-42843483/as-tax-breaks-for-pfizer-end-jobs-disappear/

http://www.annarbor.com/news/pfizer-lesson-tax-incentives-often-dont-live-up-to-their-promise/#.UDeC5KOsfd4

Like Pfizer, it could just postpone the inevitable.