American Airline$ -> how much money to save Tulsa jobs?

[carltonplace]

It would also be interesting to compare the drop in number of flights AA offers out of Tulsa Int'l over that same 10 year period.  I used to fly AA a lot, but I rarely fly them anymore because I can usually get a more convenient or direct flight to either coast on United/Continental and use SW for most flights in the, well, southwest.

Make no mistake, the airline industry business model has struggled to adapt to the deregulated environment of the past 30+ years in general, but particluarly the last 11 years since 9/11.  Every major surviving airline but for SW has gone through bankruptcy, with AA being the last.

But AA clearly played the various communities in which it had maintenance bases to see who would give them the most money.  The KC base (acquired with TWA) disappeared and it became a battle between Ft. Worth and Tulsa.  If the conditions of the Tulsa/airport authority-owned buildings have slipped as much as reported, then I think we need to step up and invest in those assets for AA or whoever we try to lease them to if AA goes away.  That's very different than simply again buying equipment and tools for a private company and hoping they love us back in return. 

Ooh...I like that. Any future corporate welfare from Tulsans to AA should be repaid with more direct flights to *(_________) 


*where (__________) is not = DFW

[Gaspar]

Ooh...I like that. Any future corporate welfare from Tulsans to AA should be repaid with more direct flights to *(_________) 


*where (__________) is not = DFW

Or how about just requiring the gate personnel or flight attendants to be pleasant to people from Tulsa.  Or Tulsa residents don't have to pay the extra bag fees.

Ooh! I have an idea, perhaps they could institute a new policy where the staff is required to be pleasant and helpful to all customers.  Of course they would probably have to negotiate with the union to push that one through and it would cost billions in concessions.

[Red Arrow]

Ooh...I like that. Any future corporate welfare from Tulsans to AA should be repaid with more direct flights to *(_________) 


*where (__________) is not = DFW

ORD?

[Ed W]

Or how about just requiring the gate personnel or flight attendants to be pleasant to people from Tulsa.  Or Tulsa residents don't have to pay the extra bag fees.

Ooh! I have an idea, perhaps they could institute a new policy where the staff is required to be pleasant and helpful to all customers.  Of course they would probably have to negotiate with the union to push that one through and it would cost billions in concessions.

The ticket and gate agents aren't unionized, Gas. 

Remember the days when flying was a special event?  You know, back when we had stewardesses and decent food on the flights.  Of course, that was before deregulation when the evil gummint set the prices for air travel.  If you want friendly service, charter a jet.  Otherwise, if you want WalMart ticket prices, expect WalMart service.

[RecycleMichael]

Ronald Reagan deregulated the airlines. I agree with you.

[ZYX]

The ticket and gate agents aren't unionized, Gas. 

Remember the days when flying was a special event?  You know, back when we had stewardesses and decent food on the flights.  Of course, that was before deregulation when the evil gummint set the prices for air travel.  If you want friendly service, charter a jet.  Otherwise, if you want WalMart ticket prices, expect WalMart service.

$700 is not a cheap ticket, to get to Birmingham and back. If I'm paying $350 a flight I expect amazing service. If I'm paying $10 a flight they should still be friendly.

[dbacks fan]

Some interesting articles outside of TUL/DFW...........

http://www.azcentral.com/business/articles/20120823us-airways-inches-toward-merger-deal.html

http://www.azcentral.com/business/articles/2012/08/06/20120806iag-eyes-stake-american-airlines.html

http://www.cnbc.com/id/48690018

http://www.azcentral.com/business/articles/20120705us-airways-chief-says-merger-delay-ok.html

]http://www.azcentral.com/community/tempe/articles/2012/07/25/20120725american-ceo-bashes-us-airways-calls-desperate.html]

http://www.azcentral.com/business/articles/20120711merger-dance-rating-american-airlines-options.html

http://www.azcentral.com/business/articles/2012/08/17/20120817american-seeks-again-cancel-pilots-contract.html

http://www.azcentral.com/business/articles/20120823pilots-american-airlines-plan-strike-vote.html

And from other articles that I will find, the proposed joint operations will be based out of Alliance Ft. Worth, that operations in Phoenix/Tempe will cease and be moved to  Alliance.

[AquaMan]

$700 is not a cheap ticket, to get to Birmingham and back. If I'm paying $350 a flight I expect amazing service. If I'm paying $10 a flight they should still be friendly.

The service represents the culture. Those who work in customer service fields know that the customers are more arrogant, less tolerant and more demanding than ever before while the average customer service employee is making less and less money for dealing with them. It has become an adversary relationship. Many of these customers aren't even paying for the flight, their employers are, which makes the argument about cost pretty irrelevant. If you're paying for it and aren't happy with the cost, do what we all did before commercial jet service: cars, buses, railroads. That would keep the airline services mostly commercial, special events, wealthy and elite...like it used to be before de-regulation.

When the pay is so low, and the customers so nasty, its easy to just reflect their behavior or find another dead end, low pay job. Not saying its right, because its not, just reporting what I've seen.

[nathanm]

So, I will state again.  We continue to award tax payer money to a business that engages in failing management. 

I now believe the sky is falling. Gaspar and I agree on something...

[DTowner]

Ronald Reagan deregulated the airlines. I agree with you.

Reagan probably would have, had it not already happened under President Carter in 1978.

[RecycleMichael]

I was wrong. My bad.

Reagan deregulated and broke up the phone company. I was confused,

[AquaMan]

Yes, I remember it well. The anti-business, big government democrat de-regulated an entire industry, thus introducing competition, lower prices and jet travel to the masses, while the anti-labor republican put us all at risk by firing air traffic controllers who were replaced with less capable, overworked employees thus ushering in a whole new era of overworked, underpaid service employees. The golden years.

My favorite saying I heard from a small businessman under Reagan...."If you paid taxes this year you need to fire your accountant".

[Red Arrow]

Yes, I remember it well. ... firing air traffic controllers

I thought "the Contract" was Gospel for organized labor.  I remember there being a no strike clause in the Air Traffic Controllers' contract but they went on strike anyway.  The Controllers broke the contract.

[Ed W]

I thought "the Contract" was Gospel for organized labor.  I remember there being a no strike clause in the Air Traffic Controllers' contract but they went on strike anyway.  The Controllers broke the contract.

You're right about the no strike provision for air traffic controllers, Red.  They went on strike anyway because their management wasn't interested in negotiations.  Why should they when the controllers had to stay on the job regardless?  When the controllers walked, they all lost their jobs. 

Pennsylvania once had a law forbidding teacher strikes, and just like the FAA, the local school boards would draw out negotiations knowing that the teachers were over a barrel.  Then one district walked out and the state threatened to jail the union leaders.  Their response was essentially, "Go ahead, but then who's going to teach your kids?"  Shortly afterward the law was thrown out.

Now the pilots at AA are threatening a strike in contravention of the Railway Labor Act that governs all of us.  None of us can strike until there's a long, drawn out process that involves negotiation, arbitration, an offer of mediation, and finally, a release from the National Mediation Board. It's as stylized as kabuki theater. The pilots have been in 'negotiations' with AA since 2007 or 2008, I think.

But under the RLA, it's illegal for the pilots to strike.  They did this once before, going out on strike for nearly 4 minutes during the Clinton administration.  At 12:04 AM, after a midnight strike deadline, he ordered them back to work.  The pilots union was fined millions of dollars, more than the union had on hand, in fact, and that had an enormous effect on subsequent negotiations.   

[shadows]

What happened to the law that after the membership voted to strike there was a 30 day cooling off period before the strike vote become effective?