Mitt Romney... 47 percent will vote for Obama "no matter what"

[nathanm]

You guys get up way too early.

[Hoss]

You guys get up way too early.

Some of us 47 percenters work for a living!

[heironymouspasparagus]

Some of us 47 percenters work for a living!

All of them do.  It's only the "starting from third base" mentality of the Romne-acs who think otherwise.  The real world interacts with the entire spectrum in a way that Romney will never understand, since he has never had to do so.  Even as elitist as Obama wants to be nowadays, he at least came from a modest background, so he HAS had to deal with the real world.

[Conan71]

Funny how a guy who pretends to have a major mancrush on Bill Clinton can't see the forest for the trees....

Funny how before I get on the Stillwater BOB bus back to Tulsa, I see CNN and Fox in the lobby, and YOU, Mr. Conan, are parroting the meme you got from Faux News... you also HATED Obama from Day 1, so you have zero credibility on his accomplishments as president... I voted for Obama over Mrs. Clinton, and I am happy to not have a democrat president who finds some useful scumbag like Dick Morris to "triangulate" his policies... Clinton wanted healthcare reform, Obama got it done... Clinton and Bush didn't get bin laden, Obama DID.... Bin Laden is dead and GM is alive, no thanks to Republicans....

If dems were unhappy with Obama, he would have had a primary challenger...

Obama's Top 50 Accomplishments
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/march_april_2012/features/obamas_top_50_accomplishments035755.php

Facts are like kryptonite to you.  GM is alive no thanks to Republicans?  Really?  I guess you forgot Bush ordered the initial round of emergency funding:

WASHINGTON — The emergency bailout of General Motors and Chrysler announced by President Bush on Friday gives the companies a few months to get their businesses in order, but hands off to President-elect Barack Obama the difficult political task of ruling on their future.

The plan pumps $13.4 billion by mid-January into the companies from the fund that Congress authorized to rescue the financial industry. But the two companies have until March 31 to produce a plan for long-term profitability, including concessions from unions, creditors, suppliers and dealers.

In February, another $4 billion will be available for G.M. if the rest of the $700 billion bailout package has been released.

Even before the March 31 deadline, it might fall to the Obama administration to persuade Congress to release the second $350 billion of the Treasury Department's huge financial system stabilization program — a request that the Bush administration is reluctant to make.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/20/business/20auto.html?pagewanted=all&_moc.semityn.www

Here's some real accomplishments to be proud of from your list:

32. Passed Fair Sentencing Act: Signed 2010 legislation that reduces sentencing disparity between crack versus powder cocaine possessionfrom100 to1 to 18 to1.  Man, that's a real accomplishment! I can't believe Bush or Clinton wasn't on that one like stink on smile!

Invested Heavily in Renewable Technology: As part of the 2009 stimulus, invested $90 billion, more than any previous administration, in research on smart grids, energy efficiency, electric cars, renewable electricity generation, cleaner coal, and biofuels. (squandered tax payer money on existing enterprises belonging to large bundlers.)

Avoided Scandal: As of November 2011, served longer than any president in decades without a scandal, as measured by the appearance of the word "scandal" (or lack thereof) on the front page of the Washington Post. (they are starting to reach...)

46. Recognized the Dangers of Carbon Dioxide: In 2009, EPA declared carbon dioxide a pollutant, allowing the agency to regulate its production. (Wow! No one knew the dangers of CO prior to 2009?)

Created Conditions to Begin Closing Dirtiest Power Plants: New EPA restrictions on mercury and toxic pollution, issued in December 2011, likely to lead to the closing of between sixty-eight and 231 of the nation's oldest and dirtiest coal-fired power plants. Estimated cost to utilities: at least $11 billion by 2016. Estimated health benefits: $59 billion to $140 billion. Will also significantly reduce carbon emissions and, with other regulations, comprises what's been called Obama's "stealth climate policy." (costs of which will be passed on to rate payers in regions which are already struggling economically).

Eliminated Catch-22 in Pay Equality Laws: Signed Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act in 2009, giving women who are paid less than men for the same work the right to sue their employers after they find out about the discrimination, even if that discrimination happened years ago. Under previous law, as interpreted by the Supreme Court in Ledbetter v. Goodyear Tire & Rubber Co., the statute of limitations on such suits ran out 180 days after the alleged discrimination occurred, even if the victims never knew about it.

Never mind the pay gap in Obama's own White House: According to the 2011 annual report on White House staff, female employees earned a median annual salary of $60,000, which was about 18 percent less than the median salary for male employees ($71,000).
http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2012/04/11/large-wage-discrepancy-in-the-white-house/

Never mind the increased compliance and paperwork costs so companies can defend themselves from spurious lawsuits resulting from this bill:

(The Paycheck Fairness Act established even more onerous requirements for proof of innocence. Fortunately, the Senate rejected them, saving employers from a far greater perpetual threat of litigation.

Supporters based the bill on the deception that women earn only 77 cents for every dollar men earn. The Washington Post's official "Fact Checker" refuted that contention. Bill supporters had obtained this figure by using only census data that best supported their case.

Anyway, pre-emptive record-keeping entails enormous nonproductive labor costs. That money could be going to employee raises, 401(k) plans or health care benefits. Instead, it's wasted.)
http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/opinion/perspectives/964787-263/lilly-ledbetter-law-perpetuates-myth-of-equal.html

Passed Health Care Reform: After five presidents over a century failed to create universal health insurance, signed the Affordable Care Act (2010). It will cover 32 million uninsured Americans beginning in 2014 and mandates a suite of experimental measures to cut health care cost growth, the number one cause of America's long-term fiscal problems.

(This is the biggest whopper.  He did not reform health care.  I would consider it an overall success if it would actually improve our mortality outlook, it simply does not because proactive healthcare begins in the home, not at the clinic.  He managed to re-jigger the payment system.  I applaud the idea that pre-existing conditions are no longer a reason to deny coverage and that more people will supposedly have an affordable means to obtain health insurance.  There are parts to this legislation I like, there are parts which are troubling as they relate to unknown new payroll costs)

Ended the War in Iraq: Ordered all U.S. military forces out of the country. Last troops left on December 18, 2011.

Obama didn't bring an end to the war in Iraq, he simply observed the SOFA agreement, ratified in Nov. 2008 with Iraq which declared "All the United States Forces shall withdraw from all Iraqi territory no later than December 31, 2011."

There are quite a few good accomplishments in that list and I applaud how Qadaffi (sp?) was toppled at minimal expense of life and money.  It remains to be seen in the long term how well Wall St. reform, credit card reform, and bank reform work out.  Oftentimes these "reform" initiatives end up being nothing more than hollow sound bites to make it look as if our president and/or legislature have accomplished something substantive when all they've done is print more paper for us to be overwhelmed by and assume it must all be good things to protect us.

However, many of these touted "accomplishments" are nothing more than the usual dumpster load of debt presidents spread around to their most ardent supporters or to demographics they are trying to woo.  He's also taken credit for other's hard work.  OBL would have been obliterated by any other president to suggest Bush's comments about not being worried about OBL means he would not have taken the same opportunity is moronic.  He was stating there were far more objectives to WOT than OBL.

At the end of the day, President Obama still has to answer to the same metrics other presidents have been judged by whether those issues are a result of their policies or not. 

-Unemployment
-Energy prices
-Overall economy
-How effective a negotiator and leader he has been (Clinton and Reagan are two excellent examples, Bush II had a bunch of enablers in Congress)
-Fiscal management (debt/deficit)

My biggest disappointment with President Obama stems from the problem that he's a great campaigner but doesn't know when to turn that off and be a leader.

President Obama today will continue his record-smashing fundraising schedule with six events in two states, tying the number for most fundraisers attended in a single day of his re-election campaign. Obama will raise north of $3.6 million for the Obama Victory Fund in Baltimore and Philadelphia, according to figures provided by the campaign.

The latest round of money events – with several more scheduled for New York City on Thursday, including a star-studded reception at actress Sarah Jessica Parker's home – underscores the unprecedented amount of time the president is spending on the money trail.

In the first 12 days of June, Obama has attended 21 fundraising events.  All told, he has now attended 163 re-election fundraisers for his campaign and the Democratic Party – almost double the number George W. Bush attended in his entire first term (86) and more than any other president in history.
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/06/obama-smashing-records-for-fundraisers/

I have no idea the current fundraiser count, it's astounding.

Finally, I don't need Faux Snooze to know that President Obama's first term in office has not been the smashing success his enablers and supporters keep trying to make it sound like.

But that's lost on partisan hacks like you, Ruf 

[Townsend]

GM is alive no thanks to Republicans?  Really?  I guess you forgot Bush ordered the initial round of emergency funding:

Probably due to all our local and nation wide state Republican candidates blaming the bail out on Obama.

[Conan71]

Yes, blame population growth and the continued lack of demand on Obama, not the Congress that refuses to do anything about the situation.

In which bizarro parallel universe does higher population not result in more demand in the consumer economy?

When a person has to pay twice as much for gasoline, that means they have far less money for durable goods and discretionary spending.  Higher transportation costs to get those goods to market means their dollar does not buy as much as it did four years ago. 

Whether it's a result of Obama's policies or not doesn't matter.  This is a metric by which previous president's job performance has been judged.

If Romney is to be expected to be judged by the actions of previous candidates (i.e. how many years of tax returns he released), Obama should be equally judged as his peers have been.  No excuses.

[nathanm]

Some of us 47 percenters work for a living!

There's a distinct advantage in the commute to the office consisting of walking a few steps into another room.

Conan, in the bizarro parallel universe where unemployment is high. I think it's more than a little amusing that in one breath you acknowledge that Obama's policies aren't responsible for gas prices being what they are (I suspect the hurricane that shut down oil rigs in the gulf and refineries on shore might have something to do with it) but judge him for it anyway.

Then you go on to say that if Romney is going to be judged by not releasing tax returns (which you don't judge him poorly for) Obama should be judged by the price of gas (which you do judge him poorly for). Funny how that works. At least be consistent, pls.

[DolfanBob]

The fuel crisis in this country is just a load of crap. It all stems from the old. If we can get the grunts to accept and pay 3.59 cents a gallon, then what the heck. They will never see 1.39 a gallon ever again.
The Bull shirt excuse that it's the Hurricane in the gulf causing it is just that. The prices went up even before the wells were closed and because why? speculation of what we might use or lose. How bout we wait until it acually happens before we pre start the gas gouging? Nope can't do it.
Uh Oh! There's wild fires in California and Colorado. Welp we better raise those gas prices cause you know that's gonna affect oil production......Wait, What? How bout those unexpected heavy rains and snow in the upper North East? Yep thats gonna restrict oil production. Better raise them prices.

Just ten years ago what were gas prices? Detroit was pumping out Hummers for gawd sake. Now they are trying to get me to buy a large Duracell battery with wheels. And at $40.000 plus. It just makes no sense. Well unless you make a six figure salary. Pretty soon even those people may qualify for food stamps.

[Conan71]

There's a distinct advantage in the commute to the office consisting of walking a few steps into another room.

Conan, in the bizarro parallel universe where unemployment is high. I think it's more than a little amusing that in one breath you acknowledge that Obama's policies aren't responsible for gas prices being what they are (I suspect the hurricane that shut down oil rigs in the gulf and refineries on shore might have something to do with it) but judge him for it anyway.

Then you go on to say that if Romney is going to be judged by not releasing tax returns (which you don't judge him poorly for) Obama should be judged by the price of gas (which you do judge him poorly for). Funny how that works. At least be consistent, pls.

Uh, yeah.  Nice deflection.

I never said Obama's policies were not to blame.  I said regardless if the president's policies are or are not to blame, that is a valid metric by which his peers have been judged in previous administrations.  But since you decided to make light of my comments I'll indulge you in his failures (and those of previous administrations) on energy policy.  Oil prices were high before hurricane season.

-Someone needs to clamp down on commodity trading practices which cause economic pain to the masses while a few profit heavily. 

-Solar and wind power investment does little to help with the price of oil since most of the electrical generating capacity in the U.S. is from coal, natural gas, hydroelectric, nuclear, or biomass, not oil. 

-Proposing higher taxes on oil producers doesn't reduce the cost at the pump for the rest of us.

As far as your last statement, I'm making the point that Obama spooners who are all bent out of shape because Romney isn't playing by the same rules his peers did (totally voluntary mind you) libs don't seem interested in applying a common yard stick to their candidate and his peer group when it comes to his job performance.

[nathanm]

-Someone needs to clamp down on commodity trading practices which cause economic pain to the masses while a few profit heavily. 

I don't disagree with you here. However, Romney's answer is drill, baby, drill. We're already drilling more and prices have continued to rise. Not surprising, given that we're reaching the end of our supply of cheap oil. Instead of just sticking a straw in the ground, we have to do hydraulic fracturing or get oil from tar sands or whatever. Combine that with the ever increasing demand in China and elsewhere and well, here we are.

-Solar and wind power investment does little to help with the price of oil since most of the electrical generating capacity in the U.S. is from coal, natural gas, hydroelectric, nuclear, or biomass, not oil. 

I don't think anyone has ever claimed that solar and wind will reduce the price of oil except to the extent that electricity replaces demand for oil. Nice straw man, though.

-Proposing higher taxes on oil producers doesn't reduce the cost at the pump for the rest of us.

Nobody said it would. It would help us to shift demand from a limited resource to a less limited resource, though. Cheap oil is done for and has been for years. I don't blame Obama for that any more than I blame Bush for the increases in oil prices during his tenure. It's a stupid metric and has been for a long time.

As far as your last statement, I'm making the point that Obama spooners who are all bent out of shape because Romney isn't playing by the same rules his peers did (totally voluntary mind you) libs don't seem interested in applying a common yard stick to their candidate and his peer group when it comes to his job performance.

Interesting how acknowledging reality makes me an Obama spooner, while your own choice to engage in a little cognitive dissonance doesn't make you a Romney spooner.

[Conan71]

I don't disagree with you here. However, Romney's answer is drill, baby, drill. We're already drilling more and prices have continued to rise. Not surprising, given that we're reaching the end of our supply of cheap oil. Instead of just sticking a straw in the ground, we have to do hydraulic fracturing or get oil from tar sands or whatever. Combine that with the ever increasing demand in China and elsewhere and well, here we are.

I don't think anyone has ever claimed that solar and wind will reduce the price of oil except to the extent that electricity replaces demand for oil. Nice straw man, though.

Nobody said it would. It would help us to shift demand from a limited resource to a less limited resource, though. Cheap oil is done for and has been for years. I don't blame Obama for that any more than I blame Bush for the increases in oil prices during his tenure. It's a stupid metric and has been for a long time.

Interesting how acknowledging reality makes me an Obama spooner, while your own choice to engage in a little cognitive dissonance doesn't make you a Romney spooner.

Electricity doesn't reduce demand for oil significantly since no one has figured out how to make electrically-based transportation a practical or economical alternative for most people in a society where we value personal transportation much higher than mass transit.  Secondly, most of our freight is dependent on motorized transport which cannot easily be replaced by electrical vehicles.

Romney's tax returns are of no use in determining his leadership ability.  Yet for some reason, in key areas which make the most difference to the average American, it would appear America has slid backwards under Obama.  Don't confuse great salesmanship with great leadership.

[nathanm]

Electricity doesn't reduce demand for oil significantly since no one has figured out how to make electrically-based transportation a practical or economical alternative for most people in a society where we value personal transportation much higher than mass transit.  Secondly, most of our freight is dependent on motorized transport which cannot easily be replaced by electrical vehicles.

Yes, Conan, we are going to have to change how transportation works in this country, no matter who is President. Get this through your skull: Oil is not going to be cheaper than it is now for any significant length of time. We're running out, whether you like it or not. That's not any President's fault, it just is what it is. Doubling down on oil would be a spectacular failure of leadership. Thankfully, Obama has seen fit to both increase efficiency, thus reducing pressure on oil supplies, and attempt to jump start alternative energy based transport. Some from column A and some from column B, not some ideological bull exit.

Romney's tax returns are of no use in determining his leadership ability.  Yet for some reason, in key areas which make the most difference to the average American, it would appear America has slid backwards under Obama.  Don't confuse great salesmanship with great leadership.

You seriously don't think that whether or not someone cheated on their taxes is relevant to their qualification to be President?

[Conan71]

Yes, Conan, we are going to have to change how transportation works in this country, no matter who is President. Get this through your skull: Oil is not going to be cheaper than it is now for any significant length of time. We're running out, whether you like it or not. That's not any President's fault, it just is what it is. Doubling down on oil would be a spectacular failure of leadership. Thankfully, Obama has seen fit to both increase efficiency, thus reducing pressure on oil supplies, and attempt to jump start alternative energy based transport. Some from column A and some from column B, not some ideological bull exit.

You seriously don't think that whether or not someone cheated on their taxes is relevant to their qualification to be President?

That's fine if you can't accept Obama's energy policies (or lack thereof) are to blame for high oil prices.  I speak with people in the industry daily, and work with several exploration and production companies but I'll defer to your superior Googling skills over reality.

I have no doubt Romney has exploited the tax code to it's fullest extent and to his advantage.  However, there is a certain agency called the IRS who has access to his tax returns and I suspect they would have reined in any irregularities long ago.  As well, his taxes appear to have been up to snuff by FERC standards.  But continue to perpetuate this strawman if if somehow makes Obama a better candidate in your own mind.

That's what I love about Obama supporters.  They constantly lower the bar to make their candidate look better, or simply throw out shiny things as a distraction from the real issues whether it's  "Bush did it!" or "Romney must be a felon!".  That's not running on your record. That's running from your record.

[nathanm]

That's fine if you can't accept Obama's energy policies (or lack thereof) are to blame for high oil prices.  I speak with people in the industry daily, and work with several exploration and production companies but I'll defer to your superior Googling skills over reality.

Ok, what specific issues have your conversations brought up? Has domestic oil production declined during Obama's term? Imports? Have taxes actually increased? Have new regulations actually been issued? What's the deal, if it's not (some) speculation and (some) actual increasing demand?

[nathanm]

RAND's American Life Panel is showing a dramatic turn from Romney to Obama among people without college degrees over the past couple of days. The panelists' winner predictions haven't changed much, though, so it may just be a temporary expression of disapproval of his disdain for half the population. Over 1% a day in Obama's favor for the past two days in that group, though. (insert the usual caveats about small sample size of subgroups here)

For the first time this election cycle, RAND is showing Obama with a big enough lead to get to 95% statistical confidence. This despite Obama supporters still judging themselves less likely to vote than Romney supporters. (insert the usual caveats about people still having plenty of time to change their mind here)