Ryan blows it durring the debate. . .

[Hoss]

Really?  Romney did not do the same thing at all.  He was exceptionally respectful to the president, and he was respectful to the gravity of the issues.  Romney may smirk a bit when his opponent makes an inaccurate claim, but Mr. Biden outright laughed at real issues, and provided 90 minutes of footage that is gold for the GOP.

But that's just it Scott.  For the GOP.  The people who were going to vote for them anyway.

It's just poor sportsmanship.  Watching the righties spin in out since last night is great entertainment.

Hell, every time Romney opens his mouth you're not sure what's going to come out.  He's changed his position on abortion four times this week.  How's that not gold for the Democrats?

I just don't see how Papa Joe didn't kick Ryan in the junk last night, but that's just me.  I noticed how quiet it got in here from the regular rightie crowd afterwards.

Let's remember that Romeny was AT THE PODIUM criticizing the administation on the Benghazi attack even before we knew what had happened.  That's political opportunism.  Oh, unless your a member of the GOP.  Then it's strategy.

[Gaspar]

But that's just it Scott.  For the GOP.  The people who were going to vote for them anyway.

It's just poor sportsmanship.  Watching the righties spin in out since last night is great entertainment.

Hell, every time Romney opens his mouth you're not sure what's going to come out.  He's changed his position on abortion four times this week.  How's that not gold for the Democrats?

I just don't see how Papa Joe didn't kick Ryan in the junk last night, but that's just me.  I noticed how quiet it got in here from the regular rightie crowd afterwards.

Well I think we can all agree that letting Biden debate is like giving a monkey a chain saw, you know nothing good is going to come of it, but you prey that no one gets hurt.  Biden did not do a great job, but at least he didn't deliver another huge block of voters to Romney like Obama did.  I think he may have established himself as stronger name on the ticket.  Unfortunately for him this is the only VP debate and the public will be left with this image.  Saturday Night Live is going to have a blast with this tomorrow.

[Hoss]

Well I think we can all agree that letting Biden debate is like giving a monkey a chain saw, you know nothing good is going to come of it, but you prey that no one gets hurt.  Biden did not do a great job, but at least he didn't deliver another huge block of voters to Romney like Obama did.  I think he may have established himself as stronger name on the ticket.  Unfortunately for him this is the only VP debate and the public will be left with this image.  Saturday Night Live is going to have a blast with this tomorrow.

Yeah, making Ryan look like he got outclassed.

But Biden did the better job.  Ryan looked confused much of the time.  But of course, that's opinion.  If you watch Fox News, it won't be yours.

[Gaspar]

Yeah, making Ryan look like he got outclassed.

But Biden did the better job.  Ryan looked confused much of the time.  But of course, that's opinion.  If you watch Fox News, it won't be yours.

Each side got something out of this debate.  We'll have to see if it affects polling.

When a wise person debates with a fool, the fool rages and laughs, and there is no peace and quiet. -Proverbs 29:9

Answer fools with silence. – Iranian Proverb

[Hoss]

Each side got something out of this debate.  We'll have to see if it affects polling.

When a wise person debates with a fool, the fool rages and laughs, and there is no peace and quiet. -Proverbs 29:9

Answer fools with silence. – Iranian Proverb

The whole point, Mr. Blue Font, is that it's a debate.   

[DolfanBob]

Meh. I thought of this last night. Since I am not a real Political Scholar who better to ask than my TNF friends.
To me VP really does not do a whole hell of a lot so....
What VP ever did so much that after his term in office he ran for President and won? Not by default. That doesn't count.

[Townsend]

To me it looked like the CRP went up to the VP and said "Remember how you treated the last person you debated for the office?"  "Do the opposite."

[Conan71]

That's what the GOP folks keep writing on their walls in feces.

I just blew coffee out my nose.  Thanks.

[Conan71]

On issues, I can't really say there was a winner, it's pretty much the same issues we've heard all campaign from each side.

If success in a debate is judged on obnoxiousness, guffaws, and disrespect, Biden certainly did kick Ryan's donkey.  I was in competitive debate in high school.  When I knew I was out-gunned by my opponent(s) or didn't have a grasp on their case I simply changed the tone of my voice and went pit bull.  It still didn't change the fact that the opposing team brought in a squirrel case no one had heard before and I had little to no evidence to back up any points I could try and rebut.  In other words, I may have sounded better or more aggressive and got points for delivery.  However, being short on facts, I still lost.

For those who think Biden won on issues, what did he trot out that was new or even a relevant message?  Seriously, I'd like to hear it. 

For those who think Ryan won on issues, I'd like to hear what was new and relevant from him.  I really got nothing new from either side.

IMO, Biden was in defense mode the entire debate having to defend the failed policies of the current admin, he even managed to get in a "We inherited...".  I heard nothing about the Obama campaign's plans to create jobs, extract us from Afghanistan, what they are going to do about Iran and Syria, and any other new ideas on the debt and deficit other than raising taxes on the wealthy.  More failed policy which four years later hasn't worked.  He stammered, he stuttered, and ad-libbed.  Admittedly, he's a better ad libber than President Obama but Ryan still came off as more polished after looking a little awkward and out of place early on.

Biden sounded like a used car salesman: "My friend, Governor Romney".  Chris Wallace ("your little conservative hit job") said after covering and observing presidential and VP debates ever since the 1960 election, Biden's performance was the most patronizing and disrespectful they he's ever seen.

Watch the closing comments and you can see a big difference in the two men's demeanor:

Biden, in his closing comments, looked at the moderator and really came off as this was just his job to come pat little Paulie on the head. 

Ryan, on the other hand, looked directly at the camera and appeared sincere and professional in his closing comments.

One thing I think everyone will agree on is Ryan is a far better VP candidate than Palin was.

[Hoss]

On issues, I can't really say there was a winner, it's pretty much the same issues we've heard all campaign from each side.

If success in a debate is judged on obnoxiousness, guffaws, and disrespect, Biden certainly did kick Ryan's donkey.  I was in competitive debate in high school.  When I knew I was out-gunned by my opponent(s) or didn't have a grasp on their case I simply changed the tone of my voice and went pit bull.  It still didn't change the fact that the opposing team brought in a squirrel case no one had heard before and I had little to no evidence to back up any points I could try and rebut.  In other words, I may have sounded better or more aggressive and got points for delivery.  However, being short on facts, I still lost.

For those who think Biden won on issues, what did he trot out that was new or even a relevant message?  Seriously, I'd like to hear it. 

For those who think Ryan won on issues, I'd like to hear what was new and relevant from him.  I really got nothing new from either side.

IMO, Biden was in defense mode the entire debate having to defend the failed policies of the current admin, he even managed to get in a "We inherited...".  I heard nothing about the Obama campaign's plans to create jobs, extract us from Afghanistan, what they are going to do about Iran and Syria, and any other new ideas on the debt and deficit other than raising taxes on the wealthy.  More failed policy which four years later hasn't worked.  He stammered, he stuttered, and ad-libbed.  Admittedly, he's a better ad libber than President Obama but Ryan still came off as more polished after looking a little awkward and out of place early on.

Biden sounded like a used car salesman: "My friend, Governor Romney".  Chris Wallace ("your little conservative hit job") said after covering and observing presidential and VP debates ever since the 1960 election, Biden's performance was the most patronizing and disrespectful they he's ever seen.

Watch the closing comments and you can see a big difference in the two men's demeanor:

Biden, in his closing comments, looked at the moderator and really came off as this was just his job to come pat little Paulie on the head. 

Ryan, on the other hand, looked directly at the camera and appeared sincere and professional in his closing comments.

One thing I think everyone will agree on is Ryan is a far better VP candidate than Palin was.

If you consider lying about the issues more a better candidate, then sure he is.

[Townsend]

If you consider lying about the issues more a better candidate, then sure he is.

She lied too but she added an extra tub of crazy.

[Conan71]

If you consider lying about the issues more a better candidate, then sure he is.

What were the specific lies Ryan told last night, Hoss?

[Townsend]

Here you go guys.  Thought I'd throw this in there.

"Why Biden Won"
by Robert Reich

I thought Biden won last night's debate because he came off as genuine, passionate, and brimming with conviction. Ryan, by contrast, seemed like a wooden marionette, a kid out of his depth relative to someone who not only knew the facts but lived them.

On taxes, Ryan couldn't come up with any details about what loopholes he and Romney would close, or how their magic arithmetic (giant tax cut for the wealthy plus $2 trillion more for the military than the Joint Chiefs of Staff want) can possibly be paid for without socking it to the middle class.

By contrast, Biden made the case for average working people whose wages have barely risen in thirty years but who are bearing a higher total tax burden (payroll, sales, property, income) on a higher percent of their income than high rollers like Romney — and why the well off should do more.

On Medicare, Ryan couldn't explain why his plan wasn't a voucher program that "saved" money only by shifting the costs on to seniors who would end up holding the bag as medical costs rose. Biden effectively defended the President's plan to save Medicare by cutting excessive payments to providers.

Biden also pointed out that Ryan and his allies had tried to privatize Social Security. Score another one for Joe.

On abortion, Ryan had to admit he and Romney would work to prevent women from having the right to choose an abortion if they needed and wanted one. Biden made it clear his religious beliefs about when life began should not, in his view, force anyone who didn't share them to follow them.

I thought Biden's closing could have been tougher, drawing a sharper contrast between the Romney-Ryan "you're on your own" worldview, and the "we're in it all together" belief that has built America — and which Obama and Biden represent.

But overall it was Biden's night. He not only trounced Ryan, but also, in the process, trounced Romney. Joe Biden is an average Joe solidly grounded in America's working middle class — nothing pretentious or devious about him — in contrast to the plutocrat who heads the Republican ticket, and the billionaires who are backing him.

[Conan71]

But overall it was Biden's night. He not only trounced Ryan, but also, in the process, trounced Romney. Joe Biden is an average Joe solidly grounded in America's working middle class — nothing pretentious or devious about him — in contrast to the plutocrat who heads the Republican ticket, and the billionaires who are backing him.

Reisch is always good for a laugh!

[Gaspar]

Apparently the debate did have an effect on polling.  4 more states have now moved from "leaning Obama" to "toss up."

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/2012_elections_electoral_college_map.html