Presidential Debate, Round II

[erfalf]

I suspect he'll change his tune when someone in his family is confined to a wheelchair. Until only a couple of years before my mom died, she couldn't get a driver's license renewal because none of the revenue offices in Arkansas were wheelchair-accessible. So yes, a big thank you to the Feds for the ADA.

As opposed to arbitrary regulations whose specific purpose is to prevent people from getting constitutionally protected medical care.

I'm not anti wheelchair for goodness sake. I am saying that sometimes regulations that so many clammor for sometimes have unintended consequences. For example, making it harder for poorly funded abortion clinics to stay open.

[nathanm]

I'm not anti wheelchair for goodness sake. I am saying that sometimes regulations that so many clammor for sometimes have unintended consequences. For example, making it harder for poorly funded abortion clinics to stay open.

The problem in that case is that they are unintended consequences, they are intended consequences.

[Conan71]

The problem in that case is that they are unintended consequences, they are intended consequences.

Huh?

[nathanm]

Sorry, I meant to write "they are not unintended consequences, they are intended consequences."

[erfalf]

Sorry, I meant to write "they are not unintended consequences, they are intended consequences."

Most likely. So we should just throw ADA out the window if it means keeping abortion clinics open?

[nathanm]

Most likely. So we should just throw ADA out the window if it means keeping abortion clinics open?

ADA is irrelevant. It is not what is shutting down abortion clinics. State laws that are intended to force the closure of abortion clinics are.

[erfalf]

ADA is irrelevant. It is not what is shutting down abortion clinics. State laws that are intended to force the closure of abortion clinics are.

Name one that specifically targets abortion clinics, save all other medical providers.

I really don't have a clue, but it is starting to seem that maybe abortion providers aren't up to the standards of most other medical professions . Am I wrong.

[nathanm]

Name one that specifically targets abortion clinics, save all other medical providers.

I have recently seen news articles discussing the ones in Mississippi and Virginia, so I suggest you start there.

[guido911]

I knew it. Romney is a doosh.

[Conan71]

I knew it. Romney is a doosh.

Ladies and gentlemen, I think we have just seen a media circlejerk.

[erfalf]

I have recently seen news articles discussing the ones in Mississippi and Virginia, so I suggest you start there.

Quoted from a NYT article:

In this case, the State Legislature approved a requirement that all physicians who perform abortions in the state must be OB-GYNs with privileges to admit patients to a local hospital.

Considering some of the stories I have heard, regardless of whether the intent was to stop abortions, this is not an outrageous regulation. Considering abortions can and do go wrong from time to time, it seems reasonable to require that the doctors administering these procedures have privileges at local hospitals.

I don't remember the name of the documentary, but it was focused on abortion clinics in the Dallas area. A woman (whistle blower type) was discussing how when things went wrong in the abortion clinics they would just drop the patients off at a certain hospital (because they knew they would take them and not ask questions). Some people might consider this a problem, possibly even akin to predatory lending. The customer doesn't know what they are getting into.

Look, I'm not saying that some of these regs are not specifically intended to limit abortions, but the abortion industry is not free from scrutiny. There are just as ruthless of people in this industry as in the banking/high finance. We offer consumer protections on far less dangerous things in our lives. Maybe the abortion providers should just buck up and raise their standards a bit. I think it would go a long way in legitimizing the practice.

[erfalf]

Plus, in regards to Planned Parenthood in particular, they have a habit of committing medicaid fraud, which is a crime. So not only does the government subsidize them, but they defraud some more as well. Most people would agree that the government funding criminals is probably pretty low priority. It's no wonder some of these state governments (in particular Texas) are so interested in stopping funding to an organization that defrauds them daily.

Surely there are others out there that would perform these procedures.

[nathanm]

Considering some of the stories I have heard, regardless of whether the intent was to stop abortions, this is not an outrageous regulation.

In principle, I agree that it's not an outrageous regulation. However, if it were about patient safety, it would apply to all outpatient surgical centers and would not apply in case of medical, rather than surgical, abortion. It doesn't help that, at least in Jackson, the local hospitals have an unwritten policy of not allowing doctors who perform abortions to have admitting privileges there. (According to someone I know who lives there, anyway)

[erfalf]

In principle, I agree that it's not an outrageous regulation. However, if it were about patient safety, it would apply to all outpatient surgical centers and would not apply in case of medical, rather than surgical, abortion. It doesn't help that, at least in Jackson, the local hospitals have an unwritten policy of not allowing doctors who perform abortions to have admitting privileges there. (According to someone I know who lives there, anyway)

In fairness we will never know the whole story. What if that "unwritten" policy was because the hospital kept getting burned by shady abortion providers. Questions we likely will never know the answer too. All I'm saying is that the industry is not and SHOULD not be immune from criticism regardless of what benefits they provide to society.

[nathanm]

All I'm saying is that the industry is not and SHOULD not be immune from criticism regardless of what benefits they provide to society.

Nobody says they should be. But the context here is that many states are passing more and more laws to make it harder to get an abortion. This particular one doesn't live in a vacuum. I'm all for correcting any deficiencies in care, but I'm not for blatantly targeting only doctors and clinics that perform abortions. There are a lot more outpatient surgery facilities than there are facilities that provide abortions, but I don't see a raft of new laws doing anything about the (actually reported) deficiencies in their care.