Oklahoma Open Carry begins Nov. 1st

[Hoss]

Here's a puzzle:
A man visiting his doctor at St. John Medical Center had a derringer that fell out of his jacket and discharge.
TPD confiscates his CC permit with the intent of having OSBI revoke it, ostensibly on the grounds that the hospital has signs forbidding guns.

http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story/Gun-discharges-at-St-John-Medical-Center/cLbsZNYGsEq6JhdVtN5eAQ.cspx

But the law doesnt forbid carrying in a non-government building just because they have signs posted.  My understanding is they can ask you to leave, and file a trespassing complaint if you dont.
Is there more to this, or did TPD jump the gun (so to speak)?

He wasn't carrying repsonsibly (i.e., the derringer falling out and discharging).  The TPD is well within their rights to submit this to the OSBI, but if any action were to happen, I'd think it would likely be a 3 month suspension of his carry privileges.  It has nothing to do with the no gun sign, as it's not binding, and works in the manner you stated.

[Conan71]

What Hoss said.

It's reckless handling of his firearm and that is a condition by which you can lose your handgun license.

So far, I've not seen anyone carrying open other than a news story about a group who met at a BBQ place up in Owasso when the law went into affect.  My in-laws who live in a rural part of Oklahoma have yet to see anyone carrying either.

I suspect most people with a handgun license don't consider it a necessary accessory to whatever outfit they are wearing.

[Gaspar]

Here's a puzzle:
A man visiting his doctor at St. John Medical Center had a derringer that fell out of his jacket and discharge.
TPD confiscates his CC permit with the intent of having OSBI revoke it, ostensibly on the grounds that the hospital has signs forbidding guns.

http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story/Gun-discharges-at-St-John-Medical-Center/cLbsZNYGsEq6JhdVtN5eAQ.cspx

But the law doesnt forbid carrying in a non-government building just because they have signs posted.  My understanding is they can ask you to leave, and file a trespassing complaint if you dont.
Is there more to this, or did TPD jump the gun (so to speak)?

I suspect a sign is adequate notification.

[Hoss]

I suspect a sign is adequate notification.

The sign IS adequate notification and actually, not even required if a business owner wishes to restrict anyone from carrying a gun by asking them to leave.  However, there are no statutes on the books that I'm aware of that allows an LEO to cite an SDA licensee for carrying a firearm in a business where it's posted they want no firearms outside of those facilities restricted in the SDA law (i.e. gubmint facilities).  The worse that can happen is that the owner/manager of the establishment can ask the person/persons to leave, if those subjects decline, then they're guilty of trespass if the owner/manager wished to press charges.

[Hoss]

What Hoss said.

It's reckless handling of his firearm and that is a condition by which you can lose your handgun license.

So far, I've not seen anyone carrying open other than a news story about a group who met at a BBQ place up in Owasso when the law went into affect.  My in-laws who live in a rural part of Oklahoma have yet to see anyone carrying either.

I suspect most people with a handgun license don't consider it a necessary accessory to whatever outfit they are wearing.

Actually...


I went to lunch last Friday with several co-workers at Osaka's on 81st and witnessed my first open carrier.  Guy came in about 30 minutes after we started eating; he was wearing a pretty nice looking Smith 1911.  Quite open.  No one said anything.  He was not given any grief.

[patric]

there are no statutes on the books that I'm aware of that allows an LEO to cite an SDA licensee for carrying a firearm in a business where it's posted they want no firearms outside of those facilities restricted in the SDA law (i.e. gubmint facilities).

Seems a sticking point is that some people believe that a door decal is law, when (as Conan correctly pointed out) the reckless handling should be whats actionable.
Was someone other than the state confiscating his license proper, though?

[custosnox]

Here's a puzzle:
A man visiting his doctor at St. John Medical Center had a derringer that fell out of his jacket and discharge.
TPD confiscates his CC permit with the intent of having OSBI revoke it, ostensibly on the grounds that the hospital has signs forbidding guns.

http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story/Gun-discharges-at-St-John-Medical-Center/cLbsZNYGsEq6JhdVtN5eAQ.cspx

But the law doesnt forbid carrying in a non-government building just because they have signs posted.  My understanding is they can ask you to leave, and file a trespassing complaint if you dont.
Is there more to this, or did TPD jump the gun (so to speak)?

I don't think that TPD has the authority to confiscate a CC permit.  I can't remember about the sign issue though.

[Conan71]

I don't think that TPD has the authority to confiscate a CC permit.  I can't remember about the sign issue though.

IIRC, local authorities can take the permit and gun after such an incident as this accidental discharge and turn it over to OSBI, and ultimately the OSBI determines if they will return it or revoke it.

[Hoss]

IIRC, local authorities can take the permit and gun after such an incident as this accidental discharge and turn it over to OSBI, and ultimately the OSBI determines if they will return it or revoke it.

Correct.  The OSBI can return it if they deem nothing was done wrong.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Side note - have friends in different part of state who are now members of the CC club due to some violence earlier in the year.  The BIG news on this is the continued gross incompetence of the OSBI....and the Oklahoma County DA office.  Just as bad as Tim Harris with violent crimes.  They have LOST the evidence for what I consider to be a fairly serious criminal act.  The rape kit is gone.  The bullets are gone.  Various other pieces of evidence (clothing, etc) are gone.  The OSBI has "turned their place upside down" over the last two months looking for this stuff.  It ain't there.

I think we can all rest easier tonight knowing we have Oklahoma law enforcement investigative powers standing watch over our safety....

[Ed W]

Seems a sticking point is that some people believe that a door decal is law, when (as Conan correctly pointed out) the reckless handling should be whats actionable.

I think the door decal is an indication that the property owner doesn't want any guns on his premises.  We still respect private property, don't we?  If someone with a firearm chooses to ignore the owner's prohibition, he can be arrested for trespassing.

A local mall security guard approached a customer who was openly carrying a pistol.  He told the customer that guns were not permitted in the mall.  The man said he was looking for his ex-girlfriend, and when the security guard said he couldn't help with that, the guy replied with "Then I'll have to shoot you first." He put his hand on the butt of the gun and the security guard slammed into him, wrestling him to the ground before disarming him.  He held the pistol on the man while two other security guards cuffed him.  It turned out that the guy didn't have a CCW permit and had been making death threats against his former girlfriend, her new boyfriend, and the man's son.  TPD showed up in record time and the customer became their guest at a facility downtown.

I don't have any problem with people carrying guns, unless they're stupid people with guns.  And the stupid people category includes everyone except me.

[BKDotCom]

If someone with a firearm chooses to ignore the owner's prohibition, he can be arrested for trespassing.

I think the question most people have is:
  Does trespassing with a gun when a no-guns sign is posted carry a stiffer penalty than trespassing with a beverage when a no food/drink sign is posted?

Because... things would have to escalate something crazy for the police to get involved in a beverage infraction.

[Hoss]

I think the question most people have is:
  Does trespassing with a gun when a no-guns sign is posted carry a stiffer penalty than trespassing with a beverage when a no food/drink sign is posted?

Because... things would have to escalate something crazy for the police to get involved in a beverage infraction.

Funny...but the answer is no.

[Conan71]

They can't have you arrested for trespassing.  They can only ask you to leave.  I suppose if you refused to leave then they could call the po-po and file a trespassing complaint for not leaving after being asked to.

[Hoss]

They can't have you arrested for trespassing.  They can only ask you to leave.  I suppose if you refused to leave then they could call the po-po and file a trespassing complaint for not leaving after being asked to.

Yeah, my mistake.  They can press charges if you refuse to leave after they've asked you leave.  I wouldn't believe it would be any more or less harsh than if you were asked to remove yourself from a property for another reason than carrying a firearm.

That was what I was trying to get across.

Still working on cup one of coffee this morning.