Okla Legislature 2nd Worse in Nation

[cannon_fodder]

On abortion: 

I wish abortion opponents would just be honest.  "We want to stop abortions in the State of Oklahoma and feel that this is a legal way of further eroding that right."  POOF! Integrity.

0.3%  (that's 3/1000) women can experience a "complication" during a legal abortion.  A small fraction of those would need to be admitted to a hospital.  A root canal has a 5% complication rate.

Why no admitting requirements for doctors who perform root canals?  Or laparoscopic surgeries on kidneys, colons, stomachs?  For that matter, any and all outpatient surgeries?

Of course because this proposed law has nothing to do with health of women.  It is simply about finding a work around to a women's right to have an abortion if she so chooses.  The anti-abortion groups have conferences and websites, this is the latest strategy (see Texas, Alabama, Tennessee, Wisconsin...).  They should just print the pamphlet and save some time discussing it.   If you need admitting privileges to do any kind of procedures, so be it.  Otherwise, its just so much hot air.

The highest risk factor for an abortion?  Whether or not the procedure is performed legally.  So making it illegal is NOT for the women's health. 

Also, as an aside... restrictive abortion laws do not limit the number of abortions performed.  Most restrictive regions:  29/100k in Latin America.  32/100k in Africa.    More liberal regions:  USA  17/100k.  Europe 12/100k.  Statistics show prosperity, education, effective birth control/family planning, and social services for single mothers are the best ways to prevent abortions.   Why do we keep doing what has NOT been correlated with success instead of focusing on things that HAVE been correlated with success on our stated goal (a goal which few disagree with).


On the Kill the Arts bill:

I heard a rep from the Oklahoma Arts Council speak and she gave a very good argument tailored for an Oklahoma audience.  Essentially, every dollar given by the government attracts many MORE dollars (she gave a number, it was a multiplier of 3, 4, 5, 12?) from the private sector to support Oklahoma artists, communities, and economies.  Her focus was not really on the essential nature of art, the enduring benefits, or that art is correlated with culture, education, and prosperity. 

But really it is just liberal hacks who want to support the arts.  We can cut taxes by another 0.00005% if we kill the arts off!  Stupid liberals.  Like these guys:

"The Arts and Sciences, essential to the prosperity of the State and to the ornament of human life, have a primary claim to the encouragement of every lover of his country and mankind."
–George Washington

"I must study politics and war, that my sons may study mathematics and philosophy...in order to give their children the right to study painting, poetry, music and architecture."
–John Q. Adams

"We have art in order not to die of the truth."
-Friedrich Nietzsche

Even Lincoln decided to continue funding architecture projects and planned art expansions on the capital grounds during the civil war.

The state wants to cut infrastructure spending, education, and the meager budget for the arts...  what the hell is our state trying to accomplish?  If our goal is to simply be the most ineffective government, the smallest government, or the most conservative - march fourth!  But if we are trying to IMPROVE our state and those that live in it, this course of action isn't going to help.

[heironymouspasparagus]

"The Arts and Sciences, essential to the prosperity of the State and to the ornament of human life, have a primary claim to the encouragement of every lover of his country and mankind."
–George Washington

"I must study politics and war, that my sons may study mathematics and philosophy...in order to give their children the right to study painting, poetry, music and architecture."
–John Q. Adams

"We have art in order not to die of the truth."
-Friedrich Nietzsche

Even Lincoln decided to continue funding architecture projects and planned art expansions on the capital grounds during the civil war.

The state wants to cut infrastructure spending, education, and the meager budget for the arts...  what the hell is our state trying to accomplish?  If our goal is to simply be the most ineffective government, the smallest government, or the most conservative - march fourth!  But if we are trying to IMPROVE our state and those that live in it, this course of action isn't going to help.

I know you have seen/heard all the studies - and seen examples of it here - where the more uneducated the populace is, the more conservative it is.  Well documented truth.  That IS the goal - to be the most conservative/ignorant state we can possibly be.

Improving the state would mean spending money - NOT cutting taxes for your rich buddies (ala Mary Failin').  Her latest dissemination goes to the "extra" $50 million she is proposing for common education (K thru 12)...which takes about $45 million away from higher education....colleges where people get trained for all those jobs her policies are attracting!!  Oh,....wait...

While trying to keep everyone from remembering that her and her buddies have CUT about $200 million from education (all kinds) in the last few years. 

You're doing fine Oklahoma...  Oklahoma, OK!   Not great, exceptional, extraordinary, or even very good!   Doin' Ok....!!

[TheArtist]

 Ok color me ignorant of how this taxes stuff works but, if the state cuts taxes by X%, couldn't we as a city or county then raise taxes by X% and then spend that on education and arts (cutting out the middle man in OKC, cutting out the "we have to go to OKC to fight for our fair share and often getting gypped out of it" parts) ?   I mean, those education and arts dollars that come from the state to Tulsa, actually came from Tulsa in the first place right?  As far as I am concerned they could cut state government down to only what is absolutely necessary, the things that a city or county by itself can't do, and let cobwebs grow in that dome there in OKC and bring some of those bureaucracy jobs back here to Tulsa if we want. 

[heironymouspasparagus]

Ok color me ignorant of how this taxes stuff works but, if the state cuts taxes by X%, couldn't we as a city or county then raise taxes by X% and then spend that on education and arts (cutting out the middle man in OKC, cutting out the "we have to go to OKC to fight for our fair share and often getting gypped out of it" parts) ?   I mean, those education and arts dollars that come from the state to Tulsa, actually came from Tulsa in the first place right?  As far as I am concerned they could cut state government down to only what is absolutely necessary, the things that a city or county by itself can't do, and let cobwebs grow in that dome there in OKC and bring some of those bureaucracy jobs back here to Tulsa if we want. 

We can.  I was looking more at schools, roads, infrastructure in general.  Maybe some high speed rail...??

Have some family in Greece and Italy now.  They took a ride on the train and there was a display in the car showing it's speed.... 184 mph.  Said that it "pops" their ears when they go into a tunnel....

[Townsend]

Ok color me ignorant of how this taxes stuff works but, if the state cuts taxes by X%, couldn't we as a city or county then raise taxes by X% and then spend that on education and arts (cutting out the middle man in OKC, cutting out the "we have to go to OKC to fight for our fair share and often getting gypped out of it" parts) ?   I mean, those education and arts dollars that come from the state to Tulsa, actually came from Tulsa in the first place right?  As far as I am concerned they could cut state government down to only what is absolutely necessary, the things that a city or county by itself can't do, and let cobwebs grow in that dome there in OKC and bring some of those bureaucracy jobs back here to Tulsa if we want. 

Who will you convince to run on a "raise your taxes" platform?

[heironymouspasparagus]

Who will you convince to run on a "raise your taxes" platform?

You mean like the sales job we get on sales taxes - "it's just a penny, for a "limited" time...."

[cannon_fodder]

William:

Corporate, income, and commodity taxes are collected by the state.  Tulsa does not get money from those streams.  We would have to raise property or sales taxes - a different ball of wax.

[TheArtist]

William:

Corporate, income, and commodity taxes are collected by the state.  Tulsa does not get money from those streams.  We would have to raise property or sales taxes - a different ball of wax.

If Conservatives are for "keeping things as local as possible" and want less Federal and State government meddling then it would seem logical for cities to have the power to levy corporate, income and commodity taxes if the people of those cities want, or if they don't want.  We fund TCC locally and its one of the largest Community Colleges around.  If the state cuts taxes we pay to them and then cuts funding for Universities, then the cities or counties should be allowed to raise taxes and fund Universities if they so choose.  A conservative state should also not want to be in the position of telling us what Universities we can or can not have in Tulsa for instance and what programs we can have or fund at those Universities, etc.  

[cannon_fodder]

Several problems William.

TCC is not entirely locally funded.  Here is the latest funding for TCC:
34.4% local
32% state
31.6 % tuition and fees
2% grants

For what its worth:  The State of Oklahoma has a $7.1 BILLION budget.  $1844 for every man, woman and child in the State.  That money is collected from many sources and used for many things.  Even a small portion towards the arts makes a huge difference.  Tulsa has a $713 Million dollar budget ($1809 per citizen).  Of which $26 million (3.5%) goes to cover art, parks, and recreation.  We will happily kick in $400,000,000 to fund roads, but getting money for the arts is a fight.  Locally or otherwise. 

Government in the United States has taken a top down approach.  The Federal Government collects a ton of money, and trickles some back down the states (this works out well for poor states), and the states collect money and trickle some back down to local governments (this works out well for unpopulated areas).  The game is to fight for those scraps.

Funding local Universities would be an utter disaster.  Public Universities are for the betterment of the ENTIRE STATE, not the local area.  If OU graduates all stayed in Norman, good for Norman... bad for Oklahoma. 

That said, Oklahoma is busy destroying higher education as fast as we can:
Tuition:  227mil
Athletic Revenue: 64mil
Federal: 55mil
Student Housing Revenue: 51mil
Private Grants: 23 mil
Sales/Enterprise:21 mil
State of Oklahoma: 21 mil
http://www.ou.edu/controller/fss/dwnload/2012_fs.pdf

Yep.  Education is important.  So long as we can cut taxes and don't have to invest in it.  So I guess OU is basically self funded (less than 5% state funded).  Hell, lets sell the naming rights at that point.

What were we talking about again?

[heironymouspasparagus]

That said, Oklahoma is busy destroying higher education as fast as we can:
Tuition:  227mil
Athletic Revenue: 64mil
Federal: 55mil
Student Housing Revenue: 51mil
Private Grants: 23 mil
Sales/Enterprise:21 mil
State of Oklahoma: 21 mil
http://www.ou.edu/controller/fss/dwnload/2012_fs.pdf

Yep.  Education is important.  So long as we can cut taxes and don't have to invest in it.  So I guess OU is basically self funded (less than 5% state funded).  Hell, lets sell the naming rights at that point.

What were we talking about again?

I'm a little confused - page 14 - state appropriations for non-operating revenues ($144 million) - is that capital improvement stuff, or what?  I guess I'm not getting the difference between operating versus non-operating in this context....

[Townsend]

Okies don't need to science.

I'm guessing it's been determined that there will be no more embryo eating again.

State House Approves Embryonic Stem Cell Ban

http://kwgs.com/post/state-house-approves-embryonic-stem-cell-ban

OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — A bill that makes it a felony crime to conduct certain types of embryonic stem cell research in Oklahoma has been overwhelmingly approved in the House, despite concerns it sends the wrong message to the nation's research community.

The Oklahoma House voted 73-14 for the Protection of Human Life Act of 2013. The measure prohibits "nontherapeutic research" that destroys a fertilized human egg. Although the bill specifically exempts embryo transfers connected with in vitro fertilization, it is being opposed by the Oklahoma State Medical Association.

OSMA spokesman Wes Glinsmann says the bill raises a "troubling precedent for future research."

The author of the bill, El Reno Republican Rep. Dan Fisher, says he believes life begins at conception and ending that life is murder.

[Hoss]

Okies don't need to science.

I'm guessing it's been determined that there will be no more embryo eating again.

State House Approves Embryonic Stem Cell Ban

http://kwgs.com/post/state-house-approves-embryonic-stem-cell-ban

I'm guessing Rep Fisher also believes the Earth is 6000 years old...

[cannon_fodder]

So, in a naked statement he says "my religious beliefs say X, therefore I shall enforce those beliefs upon others as law."

Just like Jesus did!  Just like the constitution wants!  Yay 'Merica.

Probably no practical effect. But the message is research or science that is not in line with fundamentalist Christian views is not wanted.  We don't need high paying research jobs and our universities don't need grants anyway.

[Townsend]

We put the dumbasses from the back of the class in our state legislature.

[Conan71]

We put the dumbasses from the back of the class in our state legislature.

It's more like graduation from special ed.