Mass Shootings the last six months

[TulsaRufnex]

Problem is, the media is conflating statistics by stating overall rates to try and show a larger problem of violent crime.

Unsurprisingly, I don't agree with your assessment of "the media."

What someone does to themselves is one thing, when they bring that violence to others is a different issue.  What IS meaningful is homicide rates with firearms.  In the United States, we have about 33,000 gun deaths per year.  11,000 to 12,000 are homicides, 18,000 or so are suicides.

From your UK Guardian link, the Canadian homicide rate with firearms is 0.51 per 100,000, USA homicide rate with firearms is 2.97 per 100,000 (nearly 6 times higher).
Almost every industrialized country has a significantly lower homicide rate... the higher ones, strangely enough, are countries that export a significant amount of illegal drugs to us...

The remainder appear to be accidental shootings, not telling how many of those reported as accidental were a half-hearted or bungled attempt at suicide.  Not that those are not significant, but it's important to understand that as a nation, more than 1/2 of all gun deaths are from self-inflicted wounds.

Canada's suicide rate (9.9 per 100,000) is almost identical to that of the US (10.3 per 100,000).
They buy the same graphically violent video games and watch the same movies we do... they hunt and own guns...
http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/suicide/by-country/

[Conan71]

Unsurprisingly, I don't agree with your assessment of "the media."

From your UK Guardian link, the Canadian homicide rate with firearms is 0.51 per 100,000, USA homicide rate with firearms is 2.97 per 100,000 (nearly 6 times higher).
Almost every industrialized country has a significantly lower homicide rate... the higher ones, strangely enough, are countries that export a significant amount of illegal drugs to us...

Canada's suicide rate (9.9 per 100,000) is almost identical to that of the US (10.3 per 100,000).
They buy the same graphically violent video games and watch the same movies we do... they hunt and own guns...
http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/suicide/by-country/

Point is, all the talking heads in favor of gun control keep talking about gun death rates being close to that of vehicular rates, etc.  In terms of violent, intentional death, only the homicide rate is relevant. 

You are getting closer to understanding the issue.

Drugs equate to violence.  Surprised?

Violent video games have little to do with depressive issues and suicide.  I'm sure they do figure into massacres.  Living in the great white north, however...

Need to take a look at what times of the year suicide is highest in Canada.  I'm willing to bet it's winter time.

[heironymouspasparagus]

No, you cannot always stop evil. But let's make evil less common. Monsters are created by mental illness and abuse. We can work to mitigate that.

When monsters are created let's do what we can to keep weapons away from them. No private sale of guns. No internet sales of guns. Gun buyers must have their identity verified and pass a background check. No guns for the dangerously mental ill, no guns for people that live with the dangerously mentally ill. No guns for felons.

You just don't really understand even the most basic things about the topic.  Internet sales of guns in not just a case of entering you VISA and getting a UPS box overnight.  A licensed dealer must be involved - both ends - and that means the standard background check as is required if you walk in the store.  That has been in place for a long, long time.

Dangerously mentally ill - again, it has been a felony for longer than you and I have both been alive - combined ages.

Felons?  Well, gee....ya think???  As if that has stopped a felon before, but hey, just so you know - same as the mentally ill.

You are babbling the ignorant, mindless pablum that is spewing forth from CNN and their ilk all this week.  Like it actually means something.

Where is your reasoned response to Norway, versus Australia - not the dismissive blather from earlier?  You really and truly cannot see how either analogy is so faulty as to be worthless?  Where is your reasoned consideration and in depth analysis of how to enforce the laws that have been around since the 30's (so far, there has been none - just mindless repetitious spewing)?  Where is a rational thought about how to deal with mental illness, other than just set them out to their own devices and let them find a nice cozy bridge somewhere?   Sounds like a second generation TeaTownClown starting up here.

Hey, here's one for you - how about not waiting for "When monsters are created" - how about trying to be a little proactive and keep them from being created?  As in more resources and widening of scope for public education.   Like, wow, dude,... duh...!!

[Red Arrow]

Just to throw a monkey wrench in the complete ban on "assault" weapons logic.

I believe it is still legal for a civilian to own a machine gun.  Yes, pull the trigger and it keeps on shooting (until your wallet runs out) lots and lots of bullets. Hundreds, not dozens.  Big ones too.

There are MANY hoops to jump through to get a permit though.  I don't know the details.

[heironymouspasparagus]

This is a false statement.
Harvard Medical School Study:

I'm not advocating the banning of guns for self defense anyway. But I am getting closer to wanting an outright ban on semiautomatic rifles. How many times a year is a AR15 used in home defense? I'm guessing never. But these little kids were killed with one. As were a bunch of people in that movie theater earlier this year. And a teenager in Tulsa a few months ago that was guilty of being in the wrong make and color of car.

Actually, no...not false.  

Yeah, I'm sure Harvard's little telephone survey of 5,000 people is sooo much better than FBI records.  And toward the end, there was some mention about victims shooting criminals.  I did NOT say that these events were people shooting the criminals - the vast majority, no shots are fired - but then jumping to an extreme conclusion is what the LWRE is all about, ain't it?  JUST LIKE THE RWRE!!!  Wake up - drink a big old steaming breakfast cup of reality.... one really should educate oneself before blindly jumping on the Brady Bandwagon.

And in the SAME time frame you mention the 3 AR events....how many baseball events (beatings and killings) occurred?  More.  Many more.  (FBI source)

Here is some perspective - IF you are truly concerned about unnecessary deaths in this country ( I suspect not so much, due to the shrill repetition of a particular Brady Organization mantra), then here, how about being concerned about where the REAL problems are...  As bad as this event is - and it is truly horrendous, and still brings tears to my eyes - there are even bigger problems that really don't get this magnitude and intensity of attention.  Why do you suppose that is??  Could it be a political agenda?  (By the way, are you stll a smoker??)

Compare the "Big Ten" killers in the US.

529,000  Tobacco
195,000  Medical errors
107,400  Alcohol abuse
34,485  Motor vehicle
31,758  Unintentional poisoning
25,500  Drug abuse
24,792  Unintentional falls
16,799  Non-firearm homicides
11,493  Firearm homicides

According to the FBI, the number one weapon used in violent crimes – is a baseball bat.  Why is there no outcry to restrict baseball bat ownership??  Maybe because so many law abiding citizens enjoy them safely for sport??  Like the AR owners...

Deaths per year from selected causes; CDC, FBI, US Federal government.

If you want to self-inundate with causes/numbers of death in this country (for 2010 and 2009), here...knock yourself out.  There are better, actually meaningful causes that could be fought over then the idea that somehow there is an "epidemic" of AR killers out there coming after you and your family.  It ain't happening...

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr60/nvsr60_04.pdf

[heironymouspasparagus]

Just to throw a monkey wrench in the complete ban on "assault" weapons logic.

I believe it is still legal for a civilian to own a machine gun.  Yes, pull the trigger and it keeps on shooting (until your wallet runs out) lots and lots of bullets. Hundreds, not dozens.  Big ones too.

There are MANY hoops to jump through to get a permit though.  I don't know the details.

You pay for the weapon.  Buy a special license (used to be $200...don't know now), the start shelling out money for ammo.  Stupid.  More fun than anything else you can do with your clothes on, but stupid to pay for all that... but, hey, if I were a 1 %er, I might just do that, too... it IS that much fun!

More advanced background check required and then the Federal government does the Fed equivalent of an "alien abduction probing".  Plus, you lose ALL rights to privacy in your own home.  ATF can come visit for an inspection just about whenever they want to make sure you 1) still have the thing, and 2) keep it secure.  Should anything happen - "it was stolen/lost/burned in a fire..." is NOT a defense or an excuse.  You better have it to show them.

[heironymouspasparagus]

When I was a paramedic we saw GSWs almost daily.

I would say that around 90% were crime related.  Hunting season always brought a few accidents, but usually only durring the beginning of the season when everyone is in a hurry to get to the stand and adrenalin is high.

Out of the 90% that were crime related, about 90% of that was related to the purchase, sales, or use of drugs and alcohol. Most of the injurys were not life threatening and were always perpetrated by the same group of people, and FOR NO REASON.  Yes, it's amazing, but nearly every victim is attacked by the same group of people.  Ask any cop and he will back me up on this.  The following is a group of people that you should steer clear of.

When questioned as to how they were shot, the victim will offer a story related to one of the following people/groups of people:

Some Dude--Some Dude is very dangerous.  Some Dude always attacks people he does not know for no reason.  The victim has never seen Some Dude before, even though you may find photographs of Some Dude in the victim's purse or wallet. "Officer, Some Dude just shot me for no reason! No, I don't know who it was, he just shot me. I wasn't doing anything to him."

These Guys--Like the ninja warriors of old, These Guys attack without warning.  Their greatist strength is their abilty to just come out of nowhere.  "Ok, I was on my way home from Thursday night church, when all of a sudden These Guys jumped me, and I got shot.  I aint never seen them before, they just came out of nowhere and shot me."

That Crazy B!tch--TCB is obviously known by the victim, and they may be in a relationship or have several children, but she is nonetheless crazy.  The victim will have no idea what he or she did to justify being shot by TCB, because at the time the victim was just minding his or her own business.  "I was just minding my own damn business, when all of a sudden That Crazy B!tch started yelling at me, and just shot me. Why?  I don't know, B!tch is crazy!"

Sometimes there are combinations, but it's always the same folks that the cops have to deal with.  

The times you get it right, it is a wonder to behold!  That is SOOO true...saw exactly that in a previous life!!


The only times I have been shot have been accidents - one hunting related, and one at work (and two for one!!  Two of use were hit with one bullet!!)  No malice or intent and plenty of remorse in both cases.

Couple of other times have been shot AT but not hit - both very intentional criminal acts and I was able to present enough of a defense that both events ended way before they may otherwise have.  A .30-06 is a convincing deterrent, not matter what the Brady Organization might say....

[TulsaRufnex]

Wow.  Just wow. 
I guess denial ain't just a river in Egypt.  I had to turn the tv off before I started throwing things at it...
Wayne de la Pierre is an arrogant POS scum of the earth.
Somebody needs to take that "jack booted thug" out back and shoot him.   

[TulsaRufnex]

Actually, no...not false.  

Actually, I've heard your arguments all my life.

There's a part of those arguments I try not to think about... the part that is inherently racist and anti-urban which insists that no model of gun, no matter what, even if it's only use is the KILLING OF CIVILIANS AND COPS, should ever be outlawed.

I wish, at any point of my nearly 50 years on this earth, I could complain about the powerful policeman's union going too far to control guns and limit their use.
That has NEVER been my experience.  

.... "hey, if so-and-so had a gun he/she'd never have to worry about getting mugged or shot or their car/house getting broken into"... wink, wink... "those poor/black/ethnic/city people aren't like us"... nod, nod.... "you know, if Obama gets re-elected"... wink, wink... "you know, the UN is an attempt at one world government"... nod nod...

If you have problems with the term "assault" weapons, then let's call them "WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION."
Would that make you feel better?

IMHO, military weaponry belong in the military.  Police weapons should only be used and possessed by the police.
Gun nuts do not have the right to stockpile military and police weapons.

OMG.
I've heard Wayne de la Pierre say some crazy things before.

But that just takes the cake.
Geez.

Newtown's horror
Only drastic gun control could make a big difference. Small measures can help a bit
Dec 22nd 2012
http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21568735-only-drastic-gun-control-could-make-big-difference-small-measures-can-help-bit-newtowns

If America is ever to confront its obsession with guns, that time is now. America's murder rate is four times higher than Britain's and six times higher than Germany's. Only an idiot, or an anti-American bigot prepared to maintain that Americans are four times more murderous than Britons, could possibly pretend that no connection exists between those figures and the fact that 300m guns are "out there" in the United States, more than one for every adult.

[Conan71]

^^^Liberals on gun issues are simply conservatives who haven't been mugged yet.   

[Townsend]

Defiant NRA leader rejects gun controls, asks to put police in schools

http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/21/16068647-defiant-nra-leader-rejects-gun-controls-asks-to-put-police-in-schools?lite

National Rifle Association CEO Wayne LaPierre defiantly blamed violent video games and movies, the media, gun-free zones in schools and other factors during the organization's first public statement following the elementary school shooting in Newtown, Conn. last week.

LaPierre, who was interrupted by Code Pink protesters twice during a statement (during which he refused to answer questions), said that the students in Newtown might have been better protected had officials at Sandy Hook Elementary been armed. He said that putting a police officer in every single school in America might make schools safer.

"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun," he said, asking Congress to immediately appropriate the money to put a police officer in every single school in the country.

The NRA executive's statement was nothing short of defiant in the face of mounting discussion of the need for tighter restrictions on guns — including renewing a ban on assault weapons — in the wake of last week's shooting.

Protesters twice interrupted LaPierre, who will appear this Sunday exclusively on NBC's "Meet the Press," holding signs reading "NRA KILLING OUR KIDS," and screaming that the gun rights group has "blood on its hands."

[TulsaRufnex]

^^^Liberals on gun issues are simply conservatives who haven't been mugged yet.   

Hmmm.  If I had a nickel for every time I was told that one... oh, and the "we took God out of the schools" argument, too...

If I carried a gun when I was mugged in Chicago, I woulda been shot with it... if I would have been there when thieves (probably a couple of kids) broke into my house in Owen Park, would I really have needed to pull out a semi-automatic weapon?  Oh wait, if the NRA had its way, I would.

[Conan71]

Defiant NRA leader rejects gun controls, asks to put police in schools

http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/21/16068647-defiant-nra-leader-rejects-gun-controls-asks-to-put-police-in-schools?lite

How can anyone with a shred of intellectual honesty not see a liberal bias when they call Wayne LaPierre "defiant" in their headline and story?

And BTW, I'm NOT a LaPierre fan, simply stating that calling him "defiant" suggests, at least in their view, that a vast majority of Americans disagree with his position.

[Teatownclown]

The Most Revolting Press Conference In History December 21, 2012by James Schlarmann
 
http://www.politicalgarbagechute.com/the-most-revolting-press-conference-in-history/

Indeed...Joe Biden's battle. The perfect soldier for this one!

We're coming for your assault rifles and 30 shot magazines!

Bwhhhhhaaaaa!!!!!

[Townsend]

Hale High's on lockdown.