Mass Shootings the last six months

[heironymouspasparagus]

Doesn't make sense Conan. Schools are at least two city blocks of buildings and grounds. Where do you place the guard to protect them all? The most defenseless would be the special needs area. But that leaves the main entrance and the mass of students unprotected. One guard cannot cover the whole area.

A complex like Union, Jenks, Washington or Edison? Forget about it. It would take over two minutes just to communicate who, what, where and when. Then the guard has to respond. With a pistol. Simpleton idea.

Then there are the parking lots, buses, and auditoriums. Simple, target rich environments even if the student body is armed.

Oh, c o m e ...  o n ! !  You are smarter and better than that!

May take 2 guards...or 3.  How many janitors do each of those schools have.  I know when I was at Hale, there were always at least 2 or 3 that I saw all the time.  May have been more.  So, you argument is implying that mopping up a food spill in the cafeteria is a bigger priority than keeping the kids safe...? 

[Hoss]

Only if you felt the need or were inclined to defend yourself.  If you feel like just letting it happen to you, that too, is your choice and you are always free to make that choice.  Seems like that is just about as stupid as all you other arguments advancing gun control, but hey, that's what the country has come to expect from the Brady Organization.  Illiterate, illogical tripe, with actually so little basis in fact as to be worse than worthless.  But hey, that again, is yet ANOTHER one of those pesky 'inalienable' rights ensconced in the US Constitution...1st Amendment...you remember that one, don't you?  The one just immediately before the one you want to abrogate so badly.

So, let's review - YOU want your rights to embrace and enjoy to the fullest, and yet, at the same time want to impose an arbitrary "will" to eliminate the exercise of mine.  Ok.
You really wanna go there, huh??  Ok...let's go.


So, here we are experiencing an amazing effort, driven by the well known and documented LWRE doctrine of ridding the country of a Right found by the founders to be important enough to actually enumerate in the US Constitution...that effort driven by some inane, misguided nonsense that somehow equates taking the rights away from millions of law abiding citizens with safety for children.  And the false premise that somehow removing a magazine from circulation will make everything all better.  Where is your baseball bat umbrage??  (As debunked by actual FBI statistics, if one were intellectually honest enough to study and understand...)

AT THE SAME TIME, most of those same misguided are also rabidly frothing at the mouth to enable a 'right' that has no text, nor reference, nor standing in history or law for almost 200 years after the founding.  The ongoing massacre and slaughter of over 1 million children per year, one kid at a time, by their mothers, and the performance of that killing, hundreds if not thousands of times per year, by the doctors enlisted to be complicit in that massacre of abortions.


And the perspective is somehow focused on the millions of people who use firearms to successfully defend themselves every year - the vast majority without ever having to fire a shot.  And the tens of millions of law abiding gun owners who enjoy shooting every year.  Yeah, it's ALL about perspective and how badly warped it has become by both extremist, lunatic fringes in this country.  The AR with the 30 round magazine is not the problem. 

I'm sorry H, as the other left leaning 2A supporter in here, I'm going to have to diverge with you here.

I have to believe that if the framers of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights knew of the kinds of killing machines that mankind would have invented, I'm thinking that they may have worded the 2A a little differently.

Remember, back then it took nearly a minute to reload.

[BKDotCom]

Oh, c o m e ...  o n ! !  You are smarter and better than that!

May take 2 guards...or 3.  How many janitors do each of those schools have.  I know when I was at Hale, there were always at least 2 or 3 that I saw all the time.  May have been more.  So, you argument is implying that mopping up a food spill in the cafeteria is a bigger priority than keeping the kids safe...? 

I think keeping kids safe is super important.
We need armed guards at schools, day-care centers, shopping malls, chuck-e-cheeses, movie theaters, skating rinks, amusement parks, public parks, libraries, churches....

If kids are there, we need a police officer (or two or three) there too.

[AquaMan]

Oh, c o m e ...  o n ! !  You are smarter and better than that!

May take 2 guards...or 3.  How many janitors do each of those schools have.  I know when I was at Hale, there were always at least 2 or 3 that I saw all the time.  May have been more.  So, you argument is implying that mopping up a food spill in the cafeteria is a bigger priority than keeping the kids safe...? 

So you favor going the hard way, the expensive way, the way that a police state favors. At a cost of about $50k per year per officer that's about 150K per school. Funding source? In a state that won't pay for enough textbooks. Whose buses are run down (and still make sitting targets full of unarmed grade schoolers) whose citizens already fear and loathe their police and then branch out to include day cares, malls, restaurants, theatres, parks libraries etc. In other words more guns are the answer.

I don't want to be that smart.

[TulsaRufnex]

How can anyone with a shred of intellectual honesty not see a liberal bias when they call Wayne LaPierre "defiant" in their headline and story?

And BTW, I'm NOT a LaPierre fan, simply stating that calling him "defiant" suggests, at least in their view, that a vast majority of Americans disagree with his position.

Sorry, Conan.  Any mainstream media use of the term "defiant" to describe LaPierre's partisan rant has got to be the understatement of the year.




LaPierre is nothing more than a carnival barking TRAITOR who caters to gun cultists... a traitor to democracy, to truth, to human dignity, to America... and finally and most importantly... to the cause of the many, many responsible gunowners who choose not to stockpile weapons, who use their guns for hunting and/or keep a handgun for personal protection, and who actually respect the dignity and rights of others and are inclined to agree with those of us who do not want guns present in our children's schools...

Yeah, I can't wait for thousands of donut eating police-wannabes from Wackenhut, etc. to be stationed in every single school in the country while thousands of teachers get pink slips...

There are many schools in the inner-cities of this country who have had armed security in place for years.
There are even some suburban schools who had armed security in 1999... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/21/columbine-armed-guards_n_2347096.html
This is NOT a badge of honor.  It is an admission of failure.

[Conan71]

Is there a reason BOTH suggestions couldn't be applied?

Sure, just read the posts of the resident firearm bed-wetters and multiply that by multi-millions  

Taking scary-looking guns from honest citizens doesn't solve the problem of those too dishonest to turn theirs in.

That's the bottom line.  

You guys enjoy your thread and have a Merry Christmas.  Just don't ask me for any ideas after the next massacre in a target-rich environment of defenseless people.

[TulsaRufnex]

Sure, just read the posts of the resident firearm bed-wetters and multiply that by multi-millions  

Taking scary-looking guns from honest citizens doesn't solve the problem of those too dishonest to turn theirs in.

That's the bottom line.  

You guys enjoy your thread and have a Merry Christmas.  Just don't ask me for any ideas after the next massacre in a target-rich environment of defenseless people.

Bedwetters?  Tell me your experiences living in a high crime area or working as a public school teacher...
Truth is, Conan, you have no ideas... only unflinching apologist support for gun nuts... and warmed over NRA propaganda I heard thirty years ago after Reagan and Brady were shot.
"Too dishonest to turn theirs in?"  School teachers don't stop giving tests just because they know some dishonest students will cheat.
Stop acting like an idiot.

[heironymouspasparagus]

I'm sorry H, as the other left leaning 2A supporter in here, I'm going to have to diverge with you here.

I have to believe that if the framers of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights knew of the kinds of killing machines that mankind would have invented, I'm thinking that they may have worded the 2A a little differently.

Remember, back then it took nearly a minute to reload.

Just like they would have re-written the 1st Amendment if they had known about twitter....

That ain't gonna cut it.  That's one of the reasons they made it flexible...allowing change through a moderately cumbersome process, so we don't do frivolous nonsense.  There would be WAY to much of that these days if it were easier.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Sorry, Conan.  Any mainstream media use of the term "defiant" to describe LaPierre's partisan rant has got to be the understatement of the year.


LaPierre is nothing more than a carnival barking TRAITOR who caters to gun cultists... a traitor to democracy, to truth, to human dignity, to America... and finally and most importantly... to the cause of the many, many responsible gunowners who choose not to stockpile weapons, who use their guns for hunting and/or keep a handgun for personal protection, and who actually respect the dignity and rights of others and are inclined to agree with those of us who do not want guns present in our children's schools...

Yeah, I can't wait for thousands of donut eating police-wannabes from Wackenhut, etc. to be stationed in every single school in the country while thousands of teachers get pink slips...

There are many schools in the inner-cities of this country who have had armed security in place for years.
There are even some suburban schools who had armed security in 1999... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/21/columbine-armed-guards_n_2347096.html
This is NOT a badge of honor.  It is an admission of failure.

Traitor, huh?  And what would you call someone who works so hard to go directly against what is specifically written in the Constitution??   Pot calling the kettle....etc, etc.

[TulsaRufnex]

Traitor, huh?  And what would you call someone who works so hard to go directly against what is specifically written in the Constitution??   Pot calling the kettle....etc, etc.

That's another gun nut lie.
Your interpretation of your rights to unlimited access to all forms of gunnery in the Constitution is highly suspect.

And yes, LaPierre is a traitor.
What he said and did last week was absolutely despicable.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Bedwetters?  Tell me your experiences living in a high crime area or working as a public school teacher...
Truth is, Conan, you have no ideas... only unflinching apologist support for gun nuts... and warmed over NRA propaganda I heard thirty years ago after Reagan and Brady were shot.
"Too dishonest to turn theirs in?"  School teachers don't stop giving tests just because they know some dishonest students will cheat.
Stop acting like an idiot.

Brady Organization apologist = Traitor.

Taking what otherwise could be considered virtues and trying to twist them around to fulfill the radical Brady Organization extremist agenda.

... a traitor to democracy, to truth, to human dignity, to America... and finally and most importantly... to the cause of the many, many responsible gunowners who choose not to stockpile weapons, who use their guns for hunting and/or keep a handgun for personal protection, and who actually respect the dignity and rights of others and are inclined to agree with those of us who do not want guns present in our children's schools...


I know I certainly don't want guns in our children's schools...and it is a felony to bring one to a school... but since criminals, BY DEFINITION, don't obey the law, that's just an incredibly lame rendition of nonsense in the general vein of "why can't we just all live together..."     Still wondering why you don't address the question of baseball bats?  Been brought up several times.  Where is your uneducated ranting and raving about that?  Who is the traitor building and supporting the distribution and use of all those baseball bats?  Is it the CEO and officers of Louisville Slugger?  

I also haven't gone back to past posts...wondering what your stand is on the institutionalized removal of unborn babies from their natural habitat?
Edit - left out one word...

Saw this a week ago, and it really does cover the whole thing well.  Applies to baseball bats as well as guns.

People are already offering up solutions to this tragedy. There isn't one.
Evil people exist. They always will. Some people are simply born broken. They want to rape, kill, hurt, whatever.
You can prepare for them, look out for them, and do your best to be vigilant, but you cannot legislate them or counsel them to not be broken.

[heironymouspasparagus]

That's another gun nut lie.
Your interpretation of your rights to unlimited access to all forms of gunnery in the Constitution is highly suspect.

And yes, LaPierre is a traitor.
What he said and did last week was absolutely despicable.

So what would you call someone who worked against the 1st Amendment?  A patriot??  Same thing...really need some perspective.  Badly. 

No where near as despicable as the rudeness and downright intellectual dishonesty Piers Morgan has been using for the last week and a half.  Actually, not despicable at all.  Guess it all depends on just how much Brady Organization indoctrination one has ingested...any gun to them is "despicable"...  Well, any Brady Organization member is despicable just due to the traitorous activity they have engaged in for 30 years. 

[heironymouspasparagus]

That's another gun nut lie.
Your interpretation of your rights to unlimited access to all forms of gunnery in the Constitution is highly suspect.

Actually, I go by what is actually defined BY the US Constitution as the supreme law of the land;  consisting of the Constitution itself, any and all ratified treaties, and the Code of Federal Regulations.  Wherein "my" interpretation of rights derives.  Nobody, except your "jump to extremist postion" conclusion has said that I feel I have the right to unlimited access to all forms of gunnery.  I feel - and I am again, BY DEFINITION, reinforced in that feeling that I have the right to have any or all of the firearms allowed by the supreme law of the land.  That includes machine guns, IF I am willing to go through the required processes, pay the associated fees, and live with the required conditions of dealing with the Federal agencies involved in the process.  I choose not to, for reasons discussed before.

And even if I did choose to go through that it does not mean that I am any more likely to become a criminal - even though THAT is exactly what the Brady Organization does promote as one of their viewpoints - nor are any of the other tens of millions of law abiding citizens of this country who own firearms likely to do that either.  You are using the "Reefer Madness" template for your rantings/ravings.  Come back to reality - there are 300 + million of us in this country waiting to welcome you with open arms!!  (There are probably a few million more out there who have gone off the rails that same way the Brady Mafia has...)

[heironymouspasparagus]

And using tabloids as a source of information for you arguments??   Geez.....

[TulsaRufnex]

Brady Organization apologist = Traitor.
Taking what otherwise could be considered virtues and trying to twist them around to fulfill the radical Brady Organization extremist agenda.

False equivalency.

I FULLY SUPPORT THE BRADY ORGANIZATION in its efforts to keep military and police weapons out of the possession of the general public.
Law abiding citizens should never have UNRESTRICTED RIGHTS to assault weapons that have no use other than to kill scores of human beings.
Once a law abiding citizen doesn't mean that citizen will always be law abiding... our latest mass murderer had no criminal record... his mother was teaching him to shoot, er uh, defend himself...
I remember when Brady was shot... if rank-and-file members of the NRA would get rid of rhetorical bomb throwers like LaPierre and start speaking with some logic rather than gunspeak vitriol and racial codewords, I might be inclined to once again agree with a few of your positions.

I know I certainly don't want guns in our children's schools...and it is a felony to bring one to a school... but since criminals, BY DEFINITION, don't obey the law, that's just an incredibly lame rendition of nonsense in the general vein of "why can't we just all live together..."

Actually, we can and do all live together.
Our kids go to neighborhood schools... nobody lives in a vacuum... well, I guess you can try... move to the suburbs, or to a bucolic New England town...
To insist on armed guards at all schools is anathema to what public schools are all about.  (not unlike churches).

Still wondering why you don't address the question of baseball bats?  Been brought up several times.  Where is your uneducated ranting and raving about that?  Who is the traitor building and supporting the distribution and use of all those baseball bats?  Is it the CEO and officers of Louisville Slugger?

Baseball bats are not manufactured for the sole intent of killing people.
You are the uneducated and ranting one.
You are the one doing rhetorical gymnastics about your right to own any and every weapon invented for warfare... because criminals will get their hands on them anyway, so "law-abiding citizens" must have one, or two, or five, or ten, or a hundred... what an interesting sense of entitlement that must be... just can't be bothered to limit that right in any reasonable way, shape or form...

I also haven't gone back to past posts...wondering what your stand is on the institutionalized removal of babies from their natural habitat?

False equivalency.

Saw this a week ago, and it really does cover the whole thing well.  Applies to baseball bats as well as guns.

People are already offering up solutions to this tragedy. There isn't one.
Evil people exist. They always will. Some people are simply born broken. They want to rape, kill, hurt, whatever.
You can prepare for them, look out for them, and do your best to be vigilant, but you cannot legislate them or counsel them to not be broken.

LaPierre offered up plenty of solutions to this tragedy.  Without taking one iota of responsibility for the sheer volume of carnage that could only be achieved using a weapon that is only manufactured to kill or maim scores of people without having to reload, can't be used to hit a baseball or drive a golf ball -- it is a killing machine... a machine that does the job all too efficiently, I might add...
If guns were the answer, we'd be the safest society in the world.  We are clearly not.
If capital punishment were the answer, Texas would be the safest state in the union.  It is clearly not.
We have allies in Great Britain, Canada and Australia who have gun laws that are reasonable and limit the amount of violence that any one person "simply born broken" can inflict.
Evil people who "want to rape, kill, hurt, whatever" live in these countries, yet they do not have this problem to the extent that we do.

If Mr. LaPierre wanted to start a dialogue, that was NOT the way to do it.
It was defiant.  Un-American.  And, IMHO, traitorous.