Red States Cutting Taxes (Oklahoma Mentioned)

[Teatownclown]

Hell no. He thought he was being clever and didn't realize he just F'd himself.

Gaspar and Guido, I want you both to start attacking our Governor for her lack of consistency.

http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=19757.msg261791#msg261791

[nathanm]

Consumption based systems generate more revenue and less waste. 

You need to provide some evidence for this assertion. It seems like complete nonsense. What does the method of tax collection have to do with the waste or lack thereof in spending? How, exactly, does a consumption tax generate "more revenue" than an income tax set to collect the same revenue? No matter how the government gets its money, it takes what it takes, no more and no less. How it takes it is completely irrelevant.

[Teatownclown]

You need to provide some evidence for this assertion. It seems like complete nonsense. What does the method of tax collection have to do with the waste or lack thereof in spending? How, exactly, does a consumption tax generate "more revenue" than an income tax set to collect the same revenue? No matter how the government gets its money, it takes what it takes, no more and no less. How it takes it is completely irrelevant.

It's the teabagger way.... that's why their debt ceiling argument carries no weight.

[Gaspar]

You need to provide some evidence for this assertion. It seems like complete nonsense. What does the method of tax collection have to do with the waste or lack thereof in spending? How, exactly, does a consumption tax generate "more revenue" than an income tax set to collect the same revenue? No matter how the government gets its money, it takes what it takes, no more and no less. How it takes it is completely irrelevant.

Ahh, but it is.  Consumption based taxation is exempt from the 6,000 pages of loopholes and special provisions that allow taxpayers to reduce their tax burdon.  Consumption based systems also collect extra revenue from transient sources such as tourism, undocumented workforces, and interstate transactions.  Because they are based on a simple flat rate, they require far less administrative cost to administer, enforce and audit. They also remove the political incentive to write tax code that favors pet projects, industries, individuals, or corporations. 

They are not perfect, but the do remove much of the abuse and inequality delivered in income based systems.  But I'm sure you disagree.

[Hoss]

Ahh, but it is.  Consumption based taxation is exempt from the 6,000 pages of loopholes and special provisions that allow taxpayers to reduce their tax burdon.  Consumption based systems also collect extra revenue from transient sources such as tourism, undocumented workforces, and interstate transactions.  Because they are based on a simple flat rate, they require far less administrative cost to administer, enforce and audit. They also remove the political incentive to write tax code that favors pet projects, industries, individuals, or corporations. 

They are not perfect, but the do remove much of the abuse and inequality delivered in income based systems.  But I'm sure you disagree.

And yet still, no evidence.

[nathanm]

Consumption based taxation is exempt from the 6,000 pages of loopholes and special provisions that allow taxpayers to reduce their tax burdon.

If only that were true. Even the sales tax is riddled with loopholes development incentives.

[heironymouspasparagus]

And what does that have to do with water bills?
As for drought, that typically is a function of weather patterns, but I assume that wouldn't' stop a liberal from making the argument that higher taxes can prevent it.

We'll just chalk this up to smoking your lunch.  

I wish I understood the love of taxes, or the worship of government as provider and purveyor of all things great, but I don't.  Probably never will.

It just means you don't understand.  Sad, that.

If even a portion of that is true, your company is in deep trouble....so...obviously you are trying to be > 90 but < 180 degrees.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Except that 1/2 of our daily water supply was NOT being lost to leaks.  Loss of that magnitude would result in horrendous flooding.  The issue was that we did not have a source and treatment network to handle larger demand.  We eventually did add that capacity which is why we've not had any talk of rationing for the last 30 years until this last summer.

Yeah...most of it was.  Pumping twice as much as billing is the issue.  We treated and pumped, but only half made it to the meters to be measured and billed.  Half the water went elsewhere.  That was from the people at the water plants that I worked with at that time....60 mgd spread over the city of Tulsa of 1978 during peak times (gotta take the fluctuation throughout the day) really didn't put much into any one area.  100,000 leaks at 600 gallons a day isn't much of a flood...that's what neglect and incompetence will do.  If I remember right, Thomas was a Republican, too....

Amazing what a couple bucks extra per month on the water bill will do. 

[AquaMan]

Yeah...most of it was.  Pumping twice as much as billing is the issue.  We treated and pumped, but only half made it to the meters to be measured and billed.  Half the water went elsewhere.  That was from the people at the water plants that I worked with at that time....60 mgd spread over the city of Tulsa of 1978 during peak times (gotta take the fluctuation throughout the day) really didn't put much into any one area.  100,000 leaks at 600 gallons a day isn't much of a flood...that's what neglect and incompetence will do.  If I remember right, Thomas was a Republican, too....

Amazing what a couple bucks extra per month on the water bill will do. 

I remember that time well. Had just bought a house and started to see "well water" signs pop up all over (even though most were fake). It goes to show how being on the inside of the water works like you were gives one a more accurate picture of what's really happening. At the time we had no idea that the lines were leaking so much, having been told that it was drought related only.

Those who know from first hand experience generally are trumped by those with pr power and no fear of losing their jobs.

[heironymouspasparagus]

I remember that time well. Had just bought a house and started to see "well water" signs pop up all over (even though most were fake). It goes to show how being on the inside of the water works like you were gives one a more accurate picture of what's really happening. At the time we had no idea that the lines were leaking so much, having been told that it was drought related only.

Those who know from first hand experience generally are trumped by those with pr power and no fear of losing their jobs.

There were capacity issues, but mainly due to leakage.  And future growth when one looked at the future.  We now have supplies beyond Eucha.  Water costs us more, but it has been amazingly dependable, safe, and actually quite good tasting for many, many years.  Well, it always tasted good, but still does....

Last years rationing may (I hope not) be a cautionary tale to the "massive growth" advocates...if we grew at even 20% of the Texas rate, we would run out of water.  Probably very soon.