Carry a gun? Pass a drug test.

[heironymouspasparagus]

You have a declaration of independence and constitution mash up going on there.

Hitting some of the high points...

[heironymouspasparagus]

Sounds pretty revolutionary. The subtext of a lot of 2a fanaticals (not indicting you H) is this concept of being able to defend against the tyranny of their own government. Unlike the tyranny foisted by an unelected King upon the colonies, this alleged tyranny would be from a government "of and by the people".

Should that happen it would indeed be the abolishment of the current government along with several million of its inhabitants. Then the defense of a shattered government and economy against its enemies would ensue. Good luck with aiming that Bushmaster at drones, helicopters and tanks.

Should "defense" against the US Federal government be necessary, it won't be accomplished with guns (I wouldn't even waste the time and effort trying.).  It will require something along the lines of what Martin Luther King, Mohandas Gandhi, and people like them advocated.  Heck, even Henry Thoreau advocated civil disobedience.  

And if the situation did reach something along the lines of "1984", well, then you have to wonder how the military will feel - would it follow a civil government that ordered it to mow down civilians who are in revolt against an unjust government?  No doubt.  We have already seen examples of that with people who were merely protesting based on their alleged 1st Amendment rights of freedom of speech and assembly.  Repeatedly during just the last 100 years - and a lot more before that.

I think a very remote possibility - but still more likely than need to revolt against the US government is if some event occurred that was followed by a complete breakdown of the lifestyle.  It could be from any one of a zillion different possibilities, most of which probably haven't even been thought of.  EMP event (from solar event).  Tsunami caused by the island in the Canary Islands shaking loose.  Big volcano here.  Rainier?  Yellowstone?  Russian invasion like in "Red Dawn".  Instant ice age - "Day After Tomorrow".  Pick your fear.

One can and should have a certain amount of preparation for emergency situations - heaven knows we get enough tornadoes, ice storms, dust storms, drought, flood and just plain old electric outages from any or all of the above.  Do what the emergency management people recommend and it is more likely than not that everything will be fine after a certain amount of trama, drama, discomfort, or irritation.  Or you can watch those "extreme prepper" shows and get yourself all worked up and worried about stuff that you just can't do a darn thing about, so why waste that energy there when you can use it for something more productive or fun?  (Sex, drugs, and rock and roll...chips and dip, chains and whips...  PARTY!!)

Personally, I don't worry about any of those "worst case" things.  If it happens, it's probably time to just bend over and kiss your sweet don-key goodbye!

[heironymouspasparagus]

But yes, we are talking about it right now because of mass shootings in recent months. Sad that over 8,000 people murdered and another 22,000 people either suiciding or being accidentally killed by firearms each year doesn't rate discussion all on its own.

And comparing it to driving is silly. Firstly, the difference between firearm-related deaths and auto-related deaths is very small these days. Secondly, auto-related fatalities are lower (relative to population) than they have been at any time since 1918 while gun deaths continue to rise relative to population.

Edited to add: I should have noted that gun deaths are far lower than they were between about 1985-1995, but have been on the rise for the past decade or so. And less than 40% of auto fatalities are caused by drunk drivers. 40% is the official number, but counts all "alcohol-related" crashes, which includes crashes in which a driver, passenger, or bystander has even 0.01% BAC, even if the involved driver(s) has/have no detectable alcohol or are under the legal limit.

Suicide is not really a valid item to compare since we are pretty much at the bottom

If you are gonna parse the driving deaths into alcohol and non, then you should probably parse the murder deaths into at least 2 categories - plain old traditional murder and drug/gang related murder.  Get rid of gangs, get rid of most of the murder.

The South as a region has over 50% more assault deaths than the other regions of the country.  (Midwest is #2)  Should have let them stay seceded...would have made the US murder rates look better.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/14/nine-facts-about-guns-and-mass-shootings-in-the-united-states/

Suicide is not really a good discussion point, since our rates are less than so many other countries.  It just says that a determined suicide is gonna find a way, gun or no gun.  That also would apply to murder - if you could take all guns completely away, other means would be found.  (And the thought that well, they would be killing slower....is BS - the propaganda machine for the last few weeks is FULL of the comment "if only one innocent life"....)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_the_United_States


The question is NOT worrying about guns and law abiding gun owners and shooting sports enthusiasts.  The questions are what is the real cause of our violent streak as a nation and society?  And how/what can be done to fix that!  Other countries have mental illness - how is it dealt with differently than here.  Other countries have illegal drug issues...why do ours lead to such high violence rates?  Is it because the market is so much bigger than other places, so the stakes are higher??

If we identify the root cause and start to do something about that/those - everything else takes care of itself.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Just saw Ann Coulter with Santita Jackson on Fox.  Discussing gun violence and just violence in general... this is just some miscellaneous stuff they talked about.

The worst mass killers are mostly crazy white guys.  (with a few outliers)  We already knew that....

In:
New York city
96% of all gun victims are black
97% of gun suspects are black

Chicago
75%
75%

Black people are being disarmed - so they cannot defend themselves - Ann Coulter.  First time I have ever heard her actually make a truthful statement that I can remember.  She blames it on Democrat administrations.

Santita brought up something I have mentioned earlier - we are a violent society.  We must find out why!

[patric]

Should "defense" against the US Federal government be necessary, it won't be accomplished with guns (I wouldn't even waste the time and effort trying.).  It will require something along the lines of what Martin Luther King, Mohandas Gandhi, and people like them advocated.  Heck, even Henry Thoreau advocated civil disobedience.  

And if the situation did reach something along the lines of "1984", well, then you have to wonder how the military will feel - would it follow a civil government that ordered it to mow down civilians who are in revolt against an unjust government?  No doubt.  We have already seen examples of that with people who were merely protesting based on their alleged 1st Amendment rights of freedom of speech and assembly.

Our right to peaceably assemble and protest is what defines us as a free country, so based on your observation you would have to wonder how many steps removed might these two events be:

[Ed W]

Our right to peaceably assemble and protest is what defines us as a free country, so based on your observation you would have to wonder how many steps removed might these two events be:

The National Guard troops who shot four unarmed protesters were never prosecuted or charged after Ohio Gov. Rhodes issued a blanket pardon for their actions.  He did this almost immediately after the Kent State massacre. 

The photo is the version that has not been retouched.  There's another one that had the fence post removed from above the kneeling girl's head.  That's still an issue in photojournalism since software makes it so much easier to 'clean up' your photos.

[Teatownclown]

We must find out why!

Money is the root....

[heironymouspasparagus]

Our right to peaceably assemble and protest is what defines us as a free country, so based on your observation you would have to wonder how many steps removed might these two events be:

That's not even the big one...Kent State was only 4 killed.  Remember the "Bonus Army" - World War I veterans who came to Washington to demand their promised bonus' early?  General Douglas McArthur was the one who sent the infantry and tanks to clear them out.  Many killed.  Can you spell shades of Tienanmen Square??

Then there were the "government" guys - goons deputized by the powers that be and hired by Ford Motor company to gun down strikers with machine guns....

Not exactly a freedom of assembly issue, but the Supreme Court ruled that it was ok to round up US citizens and put them in concentration camps - Japanese internment camps of WWII.  And of course, there had to be armed guards - US Army - and machine gun towers - to make sure all those old people, women, and children didn't put together a plot to invade the US and set up a battle front here.  Oh, wait...they were already here....


This type of activity is very close to the surface - no steps removed.  When you can get regular people off the street to sit in a room and "electrocute" others just because a person in authority says it needs to be done - after all, he is the Scientist - then a tense confrontation can spiral quite quickly.  Especially when both sides have been bathing in their own propaganda and are absolutely convinced that their side has God on their side, and there is a moral imperative.  We even get some of this here, just talking...I think there could actually be blows at times if this were in person.

Our rights at times are very much like the thin veneer of civilization humans adopt.  It can be pierced easily, and our rights are all relative and can be conveniently ignored quite easily.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Money is the root....

Only one.  And probably the least one.

[Vashta Nerada]

This type of activity is very close to the surface - no steps removed.