Oklahoma Joes Fundraiser Kerfuffle

[Stanley1]

Obviously you still don't understand, IT IS NOT AN ATHEIST CAMP,

You need to do a little more homework.

Because that is EXACTLY what it is.

[RecycleMichael]

There is a difference between a non-religious camp and an atheist camp.

The TV had an interview with a Dad who said they are Christians but their kids attend this camp every year. He didn't seem to think it was an atheist camp, but a camp focused on science.

I think poorly of Joe Davidson now. His wife agreed to this fundraiser at his restaurant and he stepped in after it had started and said no. I think he showed very poor judgment and has come across as a donkey in trying to defend himself. Yes, he has a right to not do fundraisers for any group, but when your wife agrees to one and you over-react, you deserve to lose my business.

He should apologize and write a check for the amount the group would have normally made, then shut up about his religion. Anything else proves he is a donkey.   

[Conan71]

There is a difference between a non-religious camp and an atheist camp.

The TV had an interview with a Dad who said they are Christians but their kids attend this camp every year. He didn't seem to think it was an atheist camp, but a camp focused on science.

I think poorly of Joe Davidson now. His wife agreed to this fundraiser at his restaurant and he stepped in after it had started and said no. I think he showed very poor judgment and has come across as a donkey in trying to defend himself. Yes, he has a right to not do fundraisers for any group, but when your wife agrees to one and you over-react, you deserve to lose my business.

He should apologize and write a check for the amount the group would have normally made, then shut up about his religion. Anything else proves he is a donkey.  

And the fellow you are referring to who was interviewed is a life-long friend of mine and Christian.  Another life-long friend of mine runs that CQ camp.  Here's friend #1's mention of the Fox 23 interview from his FB page:

A 34 year long buddy of mine runs a science summer camp. He's an atheist and the majority of kids who attend and supervise are as well. The camp is sponsored by the atheist of America.

They were having a fund raiser at Oklahoma Joes. About an hour in Okla Joes called it off saying they don't support that kind of organization and ended the event.

Emma attended last year and both girls will this year.

The camp does not preach Anti-God or Pro-atheist message. Neither are even mentioned.

Thumb tired. Call if you want more info.

What you run into when you mention "atheist" may be just as much or moreso ignorance of what atheism is rather than intolerance.  I believe many people mistake it for devil worship, animal sacrifice, and worse.

[RecycleMichael]

Belief in God is one thing. Belief in Joe is another.

Why would a restaurateur alienate a large percentage of potential customers?

[patric]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/atheist-summer-camp-heaven-earth-nonbelievers/story?id=17067039#.UWVnFzeJnTo

In one breath the story says "people not otherwise traditionally religious" and in the next
it's "they don't believe in God," so even the person who wrote the ABC story seems confused.

If Oklahoma Joe's thinks they can put the genie back in the bottle they will just soil themselves further, but they seem blinded by the pursuit.

[Conan71]

Belief in God is one thing. Belief in Joe is another.

Why would a restaurateur alienate a large percentage of potential customers?

Somewhere else outside Oklahoma, I'd be worried about a large percentage of customers being alienated.  In Broken Arrow, I really don't see it hurting their business.  Again, I think many Christians around here think "atheist" means "devil-worship".  I suspect it's a very small number who won't return as a result of this bungled fund-raiser.

That said, this will blow over in a matter of weeks and a year from now most people won't even remember it happened if you asked them.  Short attention spans and I'd bet out of people who publicly say "I'm boycotting" 25 to 50% don't end up doing it.

[Stanley1]

Belief in God is one thing. Belief in Joe is another.

Why would a restaurateur alienate a large percentage of potential customers?

Because to some people, religious beliefs > money.

[custosnox]

You need to do a little more homework.

Because that is EXACTLY what it is.

Apparently you are the one that needs to do the homework. This isn't some new thing to me that I came upon after watching the news, I'm involved with these people, I help promote it at my events, I know people who send their kids to this.  I actually know what I'm talking about, you on the other hand, seem to like talking out of your a$$

[custosnox]

That said, this will blow over in a matter of weeks and a year from now most people won't even remember it happened if you asked them.  Short attention spans and I'd bet out of people who publicly say "I'm boycotting" 25 to 50% don't end up doing it.

Funny, because the same group boycotted Chic-Fa-le and I would say that the vast majority still haven't touched that place.

[custosnox]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/atheist-summer-camp-heaven-earth-nonbelievers/story?id=17067039#.UWVnFzeJnTo

I'm not sure what is going on up in seattle, but that is not what it is about here.

[sgrizzle]

I'm not sure what is going on up in seattle, but that is not what it is about here.

From the History of Camp Quest:

What is Camp Quest ?

Camp Quest is the first residential summer camp in the history of the United States for the children of Atheists, Freethinkers, Secular Humanists, Humanists, Brights, or whatever other terms might be applied to those who hold to a naturalistic, not supernatural world view.

Camp Quest was started in 1996 by Edwin Kagin as a project of the Free Inquiry Group, Inc. (FIG) of Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky.

FIG being an Atheist organization

From Camp Quest Oklahoma's website:

The idea to offer a summer camp program designed for children from atheist, agnostic, humanist, and other freethinking families

Camp Quest Mission Statement:

Camp Quest's purpose is to provide children of irreligious parents with a residential summer camp, dedicated to improving the human condition through rational inquiry, critical and creative thinking, scientific method, self-respect, ethics, competency, democracy, free speech, and the separation of religion and government guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States.

[guido911]

I think my point is now proven out. There is enough subterfuge, euphemistic BS about this group that we in here are unsure what CG's true intentions are. As for atheists=devil worshipping, that sort of discussion gives little respect to "free thinking" Christians in here. I would like to think many know the difference between an atheist and a satanist.
Sh!t, even that "free thinking" label CG tags itself is insulting. Am I not a "free thinker", because I am Catholic? How about my Catholic wife, is she "anti-science" or not a "free thinker", even though she is a physician? Better yet, is she less of a free thinker or less science-oriented than those at CG or its supporters? Make it more local, is CG more about science than RM, an environmentalist? This is precisely why CG needs to just stop with the watering down of its views, Man Up, and just say what they are.

And RM, my sense is that Joes will be just fine without the "atheist" or "atheist supporter" client base. If enough people catch on to this story, it will probably improve their business.

[sgrizzle]

I didn't go to Oklahoma Joes before it was cool.

[custosnox]

From the History of Camp Quest:
FIG being an Atheist organization

From Camp Quest Oklahoma's website:
Camp Quest Mission Statement:

Yes, it was designed to give atheist children a place to go without the religious crap of all of the other camps.  That does not make it some kind of atheist indoctrination camp.  It's a science camp.  The only reason you can really call it an atheist camp is because it lacks religion, but hell, if we go down that route, then need to start calling our pets atheist pets simply because they lack a religion.    So what is basically being said is that this camp is not being supported because it doesn't make religious claims.  Gotcha.

[Gaspar]

Yes, it was designed to give atheist children a place to go without the religious crap of all of the other camps.  That does not make it some kind of atheist indoctrination camp.  It's a science camp.  The only reason you can really call it an atheist camp is because it lacks religion, but hell, if we go down that route, then need to start calling our pets atheist pets simply because they lack a religion.    So what is basically being said is that this camp is not being supported because it doesn't make religious claims.  Gotcha.

My dog is a Catholic. 

The cats are all atheist though.