Efforts to Rename Brady Arts District

[patric]

Historic Districts are Federal designations.  To change the District to something else would take an act of Congress, like that would happen...

Only if it's a federal historic district, federal land, or under the NPS.  Otherwise, it's local.

[AquaMan]

I'm new to Tulsa and having learned about what happened in 1921, as well as Tate Brady's tarring the Union Workers, I think the lone issue of changing a street name to something other than "Brady" is worthy.

If you don't have a card to play in this game, get out; to the people that it matters to, it matters.  I saw where there are 31 street signs along Brady Street.  That's not many.  It's just the Art District.  Brady Heights will always be Brady Heights.

Keeping it Brady:  "Tulsa, keeping up with yesterday."

If this part of Tulsa offends you, either leave the area, stop patronizing it or get used to it. Making remarks about "if you don't have a card to play in this game, get out..." is a great remark at a dinner party and sure to get you attention as a cool, big city sophisticate but in reality is gibberish. Follow that rule and you likely have no business even commenting.

Are you an Afro-American who descended from victims of the riot? Are you a white descendent of the perpetrators? Are you a Union worker or descendant from those tarred? Are you even a taxpayer for the last 20 years who helped keep the area alive and develop it? Do you own a business in the area or in the district that is taxed to fund the ballpark? If you can't answer yes to those then, by your own rules, keep your attitude to yourself.

Your remarks to me are condescending and meaningless. I read and listened to many different viewpoints on the issue and made up my mind that it was not worth the effort unless we scrub the whole city clean of our history of racism, sin, greed, self interest and ignorance. I work in an office populated with predominantly black workers who live in north and west Tulsa who couldn't care less about the history of that area or the current clothes it wears.

However, I welcome you to our little backward burg and hope you stay long enough to realize we aren't stuck in a time warp, we merely require some updating here and there. Just like newcomers often do.

[MyDogHunts]

It's just one street.

[AquaMan]

So was Cincinnati. Now its Cincinnati south of the tracks and MLK north of the tracks. Confusing and divisive in nature.

I am in a minority that believes there should have been reparations for those who could show their descendants suffered monetarily from the riot. Many of the descendants of the perpetrators have gained financially in that their estates included properties that were enhanced by the riot or were in the Greenwood area. Businesses prospered that otherwise would have faced competition from the Greenwood proprietors. However, the records (and the history) are sketchy at best and it would be a huge and controversial undertaking.

We simply are no longer the same Tulsa that fostered the riot and at some point history must be acknowledged but not as a grudge. To do otherwise puts us in the middle east radical mindset that never forgives their ancestors sins.

[Ibanez]

It's just one street.

Exactly, so get over it.

[heironymouspasparagus]

So was Cincinnati. Now its Cincinnati south of the tracks and MLK north of the tracks. Confusing and divisive in nature.

I am in a minority that believes there should have been reparations for those who could show their descendants suffered monetarily from the riot. Many of the descendants of the perpetrators have gained financially in that their estates included properties that were enhanced by the riot or were in the Greenwood area. Businesses prospered that otherwise would have faced competition from the Greenwood proprietors. However, the records (and the history) are sketchy at best and it would be a huge and controversial undertaking.

We simply are no longer the same Tulsa that fostered the riot and at some point history must be acknowledged but not as a grudge. To do otherwise puts us in the middle east radical mindset that never forgives their ancestors sins.

Perspective moment...how far back do we go to make things right?  Why stop at 1921?

Would your beliefs include the same consideration for the original residents of the country?  The African Americans as well as the European legacies were both beneficiaries of the raping, pillaging, stealing, and genocide from the previous 300 years - if they weren't, why were they in Oklahoma?  Why stop at 100 years?  Where SHOULD be the break point?


As for the middle east - well that one goes back way past 1,000 years...  We as a society and culture (Western European based) say that history is "done" - they should just get over it .   And the Israelis taking a page from the US playbook related to the Native Americans just keeps the cycle going.... and that has only been 60 years or so....

And don't forget the Armageddon Partiers!  They are quietly, in the background, advancing an agenda to 'you know what'...

[AquaMan]

Perspective moment...how far back do we go to make things right?  Why stop at 1921?

Would your beliefs include the same consideration for the original residents of the country?  The African Americans as well as the European legacies were both beneficiaries of the raping, pillaging, stealing, and genocide from the previous 300 years - if they weren't, why were they in Oklahoma?  Why stop at 100 years?  Where SHOULD be the break point?


As for the middle east - well that one goes back way past 1,000 years...  We as a society and culture (Western European based) say that history is "done" - they should just get over it .   And the Israelis taking a page from the US playbook related to the Native Americans just keeps the cycle going.... and that has only been 60 years or so....

And don't forget the Armageddon Partiers!  They are quietly, in the background, advancing an agenda to 'you know what'...

I understand your view and find it attractive. The problem for me is that I am aware of some Tulsa family's estates having taken an abrupt change due to the actions of progenitors involved with the riot whose families benefitted. They still benefit. The law at the time ignored the losses. The same with Native Americans here whose lives were taken for their property rights.

However, the raping and pillaging of Native Americans has at least been addressed over this last century by acknowledging sovereignty, mineral rights, and good faith government efforts to protect them from exploitation. The federal government did more than just rename streets and landscape some park land.

Nonetheless, there is no momentum or consensus for reparations and most people have reconciled themselves to that.

[MyDogHunts]

  I think it is too late for reparations.  But a street name, that is all guys, is not the whole brand of the Arts District.  And change it to something catchy like The PlayBoys Alley and you got the corner of Bob Wills & The Playboys.

  Then a big festive event that draws a zillion swing people to a grand event at the Brady Theater.

  We can live together.

  When I grew up outside of Shawnee I had Native American friends that had dirt floors, one family lived traditionally in the Summer by living in a crafted wickieup (sp).  While it took time, they are doing well with tribal income now.  Time can heal.

  Ouch, don't tar me.

[RecycleMichael]

 Then a big festive event that draws a zillion swing people to a grand event at the Brady Theater.

I am into swing dancing. Not on purpose. When I dance parts of my body are just prone to swinging.

[heironymouspasparagus]

I understand your view and find it attractive. The problem for me is that I am aware of some Tulsa family's estates having taken an abrupt change due to the actions of progenitors involved with the riot whose families benefitted. They still benefit. The law at the time ignored the losses. The same with Native Americans here whose lives were taken for their property rights.

However, the raping and pillaging of Native Americans has at least been addressed over this last century 40 years or so, by acknowledging sovereignty, mineral rights, and good faith government efforts to protect them from exploitation. The federal government did more than just rename streets and landscape some park land.

Nonetheless, there is no momentum or consensus for reparations and most people have reconciled themselves to that.

FIFY!

And the "good faith" part of that is still open to discussion - really has NOT been any good faith on behalf of the Federal government - they more or less just got tired of running schools where they would put the Indian kids they took from their parents, so shut them down and left the kids at home.

When I was a kid, in the "white-eyes" schools, we were taught that one of the "evils" of Communism was that they took kids from their parents, put them in state run boarding schools and brainwashed them with dogma and propaganda.  And I would visit family (3rd and 4th cousins) whose kids had been taken from home and put in state (Federal) run boarding schools and were brainwashed with dogma and propaganda and punished (capital punishment was allowed then) when they spoke the language spoken at home.  Got me to wondering....


Actually, some of the tribes are now getting back at the "white-eyes" invaders.  They have partnered up with the Mafia to create the world of casinos we now enjoy.  Taking it back, one "pull" on the slot machine at a time....

[MyDogHunts]

They have partnered up with the Mafia to create the world of casinos we now enjoy.  Taking it back, one "pull" on the slot machine at a time....

  I'm not the only one that knows about the Mafia?  I think they migrated from NO & KC around 1970.  This could be another thread.  If anyone is willing to give money to the casinos, bet nothing smaller than $2 on slots.  Quarters are a waste... sure pennies payoff.

The payoffs come on those and larger, so I believe.  I watched a man stip a bunch of the $5 and up machines of 7 jackpots in a couple of hours.  His picture never showed-up on the wall even though he walked out with $17,000.  I think he more or less worked for the people.  PS: I'm usually wrong about this stuff, but not always.

[heironymouspasparagus]

  I'm not the only one that knows about the Mafia?  I think they migrated from NO & KC around 1970.  This could be another thread.  If anyone is willing to give money to the casinos, bet nothing smaller than $2 on slots.  Quarters are a waste... sure pennies payoff.

The payoffs come on those and larger, so I believe.  I watched a man stip a bunch of the $5 and up machines of 7 jackpots in a couple of hours.  His picture never showed-up on the wall even though he walked out with $17,000.  I think he more or less worked for the people.  PS: I'm usually wrong about this stuff, but not always.

Got a lot of family in KC, some of whom were in the teamsters union in the 30's, 40's and 50's.  One Italian friend in particular told me how at the time he was young, every male child was made a 'job offer' of lifetime employment.  If yes, then you were in the business for life, if no, then you were out of the business for life (a civilian).  His brother opted for the lifetime employment...he declined.

[patric]

TULSA - A private donor who promised to pay for the new Brady street signs has yet to come forward.

That means the City of Tulsa ended up footing the bill for the switch to M.B Brady Street.
Last year, Tulsa city councilors changed the street name to honor the Civil War photographer.

Initially, city leaders said a private donor would pay for the new project, but the donor never came forward. Tulsa's taxpayers paid $3,200 to install the new signs.  "When we change other street signs and name signs, and streets after people we don't hold the project up waiting on some pennies to come in to see the signs are going to be paid or not," District 1 Councilor Jack Henderson said.

City officials say the signs were paid out of the general fund, which covers most salaries and most day to say operations. It's money city leaders say they did not budget because they were under the impression that the funds would not come from the taxpayers.

[Townsend]

Henderson'd be raising Hell if someone else had lied about a private donor.

Now, $3200 is "pennies".

[Gaspar]

TULSA - A private donor who promised to pay for the new Brady street signs has yet to come forward.

That means the City of Tulsa ended up footing the bill for the switch to M.B Brady Street.
Last year, Tulsa city councilors changed the street name to honor the Civil War photographer.

Initially, city leaders said a private donor would pay for the new project, but the donor never came forward. Tulsa's taxpayers paid $3,200 to install the new signs.  "When we change other street signs and name signs, and streets after people we don't hold the project up waiting on some pennies to come in to see the signs are going to be paid or not," District 1 Councilor Jack Henderson said.

City officials say the signs were paid out of the general fund, which covers most salaries and most day to say operations. It's money city leaders say they did not budget because they were under the impression that the funds would not come from the taxpayers.

Anyone check Henderson's phone records?