National Basketball Association Action.

[Laramie]

Exciting action last night in OKC:

Thunder vs. Warriors @ Chesapeake Energy Arena

[Rookie Okie]

Absolutely awesome finish!  Westbrook's 3 for the win against the Warriors left only 0.1 sec on the clock this time (2 weeks ago he drained what we thought would be the winning 3 against the Warriors with under 3 sec to go until Iguodala hit a crushing jumper from the side at the buzzer to steal the victory)!

Anyways, I made the trip over to see last night's game (my first Thunder game).  Great crowd and fantastic pre and post game atmosphere inside and outside.  Most noticeable was the chance to witness and experience the positive effects created by the critical mass of 18,000 + fans for 41 home games and a half dozen or so playoff games.  The high volume of both foot and vehicle traffic in Bricktown for game nights on top of what would be in the area on a non-event night is so very impressive.

I like what is evolving organically here in Tulsa downtown.  However, the crowds out and about in downtown OKC dwarf those downtown here although Tulsa is definitely on an upward trajectory.   I'm aware of the fact that the ambitious MAPS program in OKC that led to most of their downtown redevelopment is a good 10 years or more ahead of similar initiatives in Tulsa.  I'm also mindful that Tulsa has several other notable entertainment districts outside of downtown (some folks like to party in their 'hoods which is also a good thing), although OKC has a few other areas as well.

From my observations based on the few times I've been to downtown OKC, it appears as though many more residents there are comfortable going downtown for enjoyment.  I'm sure that many of those residents probably developed such a comfort by being a part of the critical mass of fans attending Thunder games.  Many of these folks are not your urban by choice, creative, artsy, yuppie, hipster, empty nester.....typical downtown catalysts.  But they have been coming in droves from all over to partake in all that downtown OKC has to offer.  I don't doubt that many of these same people were once naysayers who wouldn't be caught dead downtown.  But now they're part of that critical mass owed in good measure to the Thunder, and over time their minds were changed and a new found pride in their town had developed within (several told me as much).  Believe me, that hoop crowd was eclectic and electric!  White, black, Hispanic, Native American, Asian, Middle Eastern, Hindu, other foreigners, old, young, straight, LBGT, country, rockers, hip hoppers, handicapped, etc.....and a good representation of all.  What I didn't really notice was a bunch of VIPs, wannabes, and limos and that was a good thing!  Oklahoma is for real!

I know that most on this forum are tireless ambassadors and supporters of downtown.  We certainly need all of our downtown catalysts to continue championing living, working, shopping, and playing downtown.  However, going forward Tulsa will need more of everyone else to play (hopefully shop too) downtown if it truly desires to once again claim a successful vibrant and sustainable core.  Tulsa, your mission should you decide to accept it is to create and cultivate a critical mass downtown.  Unless a tornado levels Chesapeake Energy Arena, the Thunder aren't coming to Tulsa temporarily or otherwise.  However, prospective employers, educational and healthcare institutions might be willing.  Pro soccer and who knows maybe an urban concept for that Tulsa outlet mall with sidewalk entrances and real store fronts downtown could be a big hit....Just a few thoughts, I know there are others!







 

[Laramie]

Durant, Jackson and  Westbrook caught fire last night against Minnesota which is a team that the Thunder has had match-up problems with in the past.

Approving the Vision 2025 sales' tax to build the BOK Center and ONEOK ballpark was the best investment Tulsa could make.  You'll see more private investment in downtown Tulsa as a result of building those two structures.  Your private investment will probably triple what you collected with the approval of the Vision 2025 initiative.

The Brady District & Blue Dome areas will see more development as time moves on.

When the Vision 2025 sales tax is ready to expire; Tulsa will be ready to approve continuation of the tax without raising taxes.  This momentum will allow you to build other structures because the voters will have seen the quality of the projects they approved.

Tulsa will certainly be ready for a new or renovated soccer stadium at Drillers Park. 

I was really impressed with the architecture of the BOK Center by Cesar Pelli.

[RecycleMichael]

Approving the Vision 2025 sales' tax to build the BOK Center and ONEOK ballpark was the best investment Tulsa could make. 

Why do you feel compelled to post on TulsaNow? You don't live here and don't know what is going on. You post all the time in the OKC blogs. Are you just that bored that you feel the need to weigh in on other cities?

Vision 2025 had nothing for the ONEOK ballpark. If you lived here you would know that.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Anyways, I made the trip over to see last night's game (my first Thunder game).  Great crowd and fantastic pre and post game atmosphere inside and outside.  Most noticeable was the chance to witness and experience the positive effects created by the critical mass of 18,000 + fans for 41 home games and a half dozen or so playoff games.  The high volume of both foot and vehicle traffic in Bricktown for game nights on top of what would be in the area on a non-event night is so very impressive.

I like what is evolving organically here in Tulsa downtown.  However, the crowds out and about in downtown OKC dwarf those downtown here although Tulsa is definitely on an upward trajectory.   I'm aware of the fact that the ambitious MAPS program in OKC that led to most of their downtown redevelopment is a good 10 years or more ahead of similar initiatives in Tulsa.  I'm also mindful that Tulsa has several other notable entertainment districts outside of downtown (some folks like to party in their 'hoods which is also a good thing), although OKC has a few other areas as well.


I know that most on this forum are tireless ambassadors and supporters of downtown.  We certainly need all of our downtown catalysts to continue championing living, working, shopping, and playing downtown.  However, going forward Tulsa will need more of everyone else to play (hopefully shop too) downtown if it truly desires to once again claim a successful vibrant and sustainable core.  Tulsa, your mission should you decide to accept it is to create and cultivate a critical mass downtown.  Unless a tornado levels Chesapeake Energy Arena, the Thunder aren't coming to Tulsa temporarily or otherwise.  However, prospective employers, educational and healthcare institutions might be willing.  Pro soccer and who knows maybe an urban concept for that Tulsa outlet mall with sidewalk entrances and real store fronts downtown could be a big hit....Just a few thoughts, I know there are others!

 

OKC has some very slow nights, too...like when there are no games.  And if Tulsa has a BOK event, it gets very similar crowds.  Where are those other OKC areas you are talking about?  I am there enough (too much) to make it a good to know thing....

Pro soccer is still a hard sell here.  Small groups of intensely loyal fans.  Another generation of kids and soccer moms likely to be needed before big expectations are realized there.

T started out 10 years or so after OKC but we really aren't that far "behind" at all.  The biggest difference is the pro NBA team.  Everything else OKC has is on a par with things that Tulsa has - not equal, but equivalent.    And we have a certain, undefinable "something" that makes Tulsa (and northeast Oklahoma) a more 'attractive' place to live.  Of the people I work with (and have worked with in the past), invariably, the central OK residences who look here are much more likely to move here than the northeast OK residences who look there are likely to move there.  By many times over.

[dbacksfan 2.0]

Just from my own experience as a Diamondbacks fan, and having moved to Phoenix in their inaugural season, OKC is still in the "honeymoon" phase with the Thunder, and yes they have been good, partly because it was an existing team with potential, and a change of venue can energize a team, but if they have a couple of bad seasons, the sound you will hear is not cheers, but the sound of people breaking their ankles jumping off the band wagon.

The Diamondbacks had a rocky start, but went on to win the World Series in their forth year, followed by a decent season, and then came the fire sale of players to get the payroll under control with the bonuses that were to be paid out. In '05, '06, and '07 you could show up at the box office 45 minutes before first pitch, and get free tickets to box seats from season ticket holders that just did not want to go to a game. Being so close to the Rockies, Padres, Dodgers, and all of the Cub's fans, you could go to a game and there were more opposing team fans than D'backs fans. Going into their 17th season, they are finally developing a real fan base.

It will be interesting to see how the fan base really develops for the Thunder.

As with any comparison, "Your mileage may vary, professional driver on a closed course."

[Rookie Okie]

I don't know much about OKC.  Been there less than a handful of times since I moved here this year.  But in response to the question about other areas of OKC, I did stumble upon a nice neighborhood called Mesta Park along with another contiguous perhaps even nicer area.  There appeared to be some neighborhood shops and restaurants on thoroughfares in and around this area that could be of interest.  Had it not gotten dark during my drive through, I would have taken the time to further explore it.  I'll leave it for another time though.  I also saw the Paseo arts enclave.  Another intertesing and eveloving strip is some former automobile row that is rapidly transforming into restauants and shops.  Had coffee there late Sat. afternoon.  I also drove north on either Western I believe or Walker (something starting with a W) and saw a bunch of restaurants and other stuff.

You perhaps know of these areas as you state you are in OKC enough.  For what my limited observations are worth these areas have nothing on or over Tulsa, but I only mentioned them since I was asked.

[heironymouspasparagus]

I don't know much about OKC.  Been there less than a handful of times since I moved here this year.  But in response to the question about other areas of OKC, I did stumble upon a nice neighborhood called Mesta Park along with another contiguous perhaps even nicer area.  There appeared to be some neighborhood shops and restaurants on thoroughfares in and around this area that could be of interest.  Had it not gotten dark during my drive through, I would have taken the time to further explore it.  I'll leave it for another time though.  I also saw the Paseo arts enclave.  Another intertesing and eveloving strip is some former automobile row that is rapidly transforming into restauants and shops.  Had coffee there late Sat. afternoon.  I also drove north on either Western I believe or Walker (something starting with a W) and saw a bunch of restaurants and other stuff.

You perhaps know of these areas as you state you are in OKC enough.  For what my limited observations are worth these areas have nothing on or over Tulsa, but I only mentioned them since I was asked.

I have driven through Mesta Park before and it is a very nice area.  There are a few of those areas around town - very similar to Tulsa.  There are also some very good museums over in the direction of the race track.  Have only been to one so far and that was quite a while ago - they close too early in the afternoon for most of my days.

 

[Laramie]

I don't know much about OKC.  Been there less than a handful of times since I moved here this year.  But in response to the question about other areas of OKC, I did stumble upon a nice neighborhood called Mesta Park along with another contiguous perhaps even nicer area.  There appeared to be some neighborhood shops and restaurants on thoroughfares in and around this area that could be of interest.  Had it not gotten dark during my drive through, I would have taken the time to further explore it.  I'll leave it for another time though.  I also saw the Paseo arts enclave.  Another interesting and evolving strip is some former automobile row that is rapidly transforming into restaurants and shops.  Had coffee there late Sat. afternoon.  I also drove north on either Western I believe or Walker (something starting with a W) and saw a bunch of restaurants and other stuff.

You perhaps know of these areas as you state you are in OKC enough.  For what my limited observations are worth these areas have nothing on or over Tulsa, but I only mentioned them since I was asked.

Tulsa is a very clean and attractive city.  

I really miss the charm of the old Camelot Inn; attended many conferences there.  Tulsa lost an icon with historic value.

Tulsa's Camelot Inn

You  probably stumbled upon two areas in OKC; the Plaza District and an area called the Classen Curve.  These areas are within a two-mile radius of the Paseo Arts District with Classen Curve further north on Western Avenue.

[Rookie Okie]

I appreciate your pics of Tulsa, they are great. 

This former jewel in the Camelot looked amazing in its hey day.  Exactly where was it located in Brookside?

[Red Arrow]

I appreciate your pics of Tulsa, they are great. 

This former jewel in the Camelot looked amazing in its hey day.  Exactly where was it located in Brookside?

I-44 & Peoria

[Hoss]

Took these about six years ago, right before the Camelot came down.  It's a shame it got into such disrepair.  I can still remember Riverside airport using it as a landmark for airplanes coming in over the radio towers.  "Fly to the Camelot"...

http://www.flickr.com/search/?w=66518760@N00&q=camelot

[Rookie Okie]

These are nice pictures of the hotel.  From the exterior 6 years ago, it appeared as salvageable.  However, the video stated that it has rotted inside for the most part and that asbestos abatement had been going on for some time so that was sad for such a landmark.

From your pics, it looks as if there was a Churches Chicken located on the NW corner where there is a QT today, is this correct?  Across the street is the strip plaza with the Chinese restaurant on the NE corner.  I know there is another strip center on the SE corner. So was the hotel on the SW corner?  I'm scratching my head on what's on that corner right now, is the a Baum's near?

I gleaned some of those other pics, and there are some spectacular sunsets of that dairy in the Pearl district with downtown in the backdrop and also some good shots of the BOK center when it was under construction.

[Hoss]

These are nice pictures of the hotel.  From the exterior 6 years ago, it appeared as salvageable.  However, the video stated that it has rotted inside for the most part and that asbestos abatement had been going on for some time so that was sad for such a landmark.

From your pics, it looks as if there was a Churches Chicken located on the NW corner where there is a QT today, is this correct?  Across the street is the strip plaza with the Chinese restaurant on the NE corner.  I know there is another strip center on the SE corner. So was the hotel on the SW corner?  I'm scratching my head on what's on that corner right now, is the a Baum's near?

I gleaned some of those other pics, and there are some spectacular sunsets of that dairy in the Pearl district with downtown in the backdrop and also some good shots of the BOK center when it was under construction.

Yes, I tried to document the construction of the MotherShip.  I was a bit more optimistic on the arena than many on here.  I'm glad to see it has done as well as it has and continues to do so, over five years later.  Most of these pictures were taken with an old Fujufilm point and shoot.  I've graduated up now to a true DSLR but haven't done much photography lately.  I have a new Nikon coming next week, so I'm sure I'll be getting out more later.

[heironymouspasparagus]

These are nice pictures of the hotel.  From the exterior 6 years ago, it appeared as salvageable.  However, the video stated that it has rotted inside for the most part and that asbestos abatement had been going on for some time so that was sad for such a landmark.

From your pics, it looks as if there was a Churches Chicken located on the NW corner where there is a QT today, is this correct?  Across the street is the strip plaza with the Chinese restaurant on the NE corner.  I know there is another strip center on the SE corner. So was the hotel on the SW corner?  I'm scratching my head on what's on that corner right now, is the a Baum's near?

I gleaned some of those other pics, and there are some spectacular sunsets of that dairy in the Pearl district with downtown in the backdrop and also some good shots of the BOK center when it was under construction.

It was where the Quik Trip is now...actual building front sitting right where QT is.

If you go to Google Earth and use the 'time' function on the top tool bar, you can scroll back and see the Camelot up to about 2005.  Then 2010, the lot is empty.

I went into the place for the last time just a little while before it closed and was boarded up.  It was a mess then.  Very humid (they weren't running the A/C properly so they could save some money), so it smelled like mold.  Dark, dank, depressing.  They had some very dark red/burgundy carpet that was very thick and plush and amazing to walk on...when new and in good shape, it would almost make me rethink my aversion to carpet!