Passenger Rail Set To Connect OKC, Tulsa

[Red Arrow]

You got a cite for that? It seems possible, but I've seen the huge-donkey pump stations they have on some pipelines, and those clearly also use a significant amount of energy. My only problem with pipelines is that even well respected players in the industry manage to have their pipes rust through from time to time despite claiming to conduct regular inspections.

And occasionally a train will derail and 18 wheelers crash.

[nathanm]

And occasionally a train will derail and 18 wheelers crash.

Indeed, but rarely do tanker cars have significant leaks ongoing for months at a time. And they're a lot easier to inspect, not being buried.

[BKDotCom]

What, with more carbon emissions required for rail transit as well as many more potential spill hazards, rail really looks like an anachronism compared to the stated goals of the environmental types.

Topical :
http://record.umich.edu/articles/planes-trains-and-automobiles-traveling-car-uses-most-energy

Key Quote:

Overall, in 2010, BTU per person mile was 4,218 for driving versus 2,691 for flying. Other modes of transportation: Amtrak trains (1,668), motorcycles (2,675) and transit buses (3,347)

so from most efficient to least

• Rail
• Motorcycle
• Plane
• Bus  (in Tulsa with 1 passenger / bus... doubtful)
• Fossil-fuel powered automobile

[Conan71]

Topical :
http://record.umich.edu/articles/planes-trains-and-automobiles-traveling-car-uses-most-energy

Key Quote:
so from most efficient to least

• Rail
• Motorcycle
• Plane
• Bus  (in Tulsa with 1 passenger / bus... doubtful)
• Fossil-fuel powered automobile

Unfortunately BK, they didn't compare emissions from a pipeline which is what I was referencing in a comparison to rail travel.  I have a feeling the electricity required to keep pumps running on a pipeline are less than that diesel train, but can't say for certain.

I say transport it by bicycle, mostly carbon neutral though I'm pretty sure I emit CO2 when I ride otherwise I'd be dead 

[heironymouspasparagus]

You got a cite for that? It seems possible, but I've seen the huge-donkey pump stations they have on some pipelines, and those clearly also use a significant amount of energy. My only problem with pipelines is that even well respected players in the industry manage to have their pipes rust through from time to time despite claiming to conduct regular inspections.

They lie.  It is getting better - too slowly - but the oil people have fought inspection tooth and nail.  The thought is a "don't ask, don't tell" kind of mind set - if they don't inspect, they can invoke "plausible deniability" when a leak occurs - "we didn't know...".  There are a couple of companies that are doing good work in that area.   I made a tool a long time ago that would do an amazing inspection on plastic pipe.  Fed DOT would not put regulations in that would make it mandatory - it's that old "unwarranted government intrusion" thing..... 

[heironymouspasparagus]

Topical :
http://record.umich.edu/articles/planes-trains-and-automobiles-traveling-car-uses-most-energy

Key Quote:
so from most efficient to least

• Rail
• Motorcycle
• Plane
• Bus  (in Tulsa with 1 passenger / bus... doubtful)
• Fossil-fuel powered automobile

I gotta get a bus....

[PonderInc]

Has anyone else noticed that if you complete the public comments form supplied by ODOT related to the Sooner Sub line, that the "submit by email" button doesn't work at all? The "print" button also doesn't work. In addition, if you attempt to save the PDF form, you just get a copy of the blank form.  Also, you can't copy your comments to paste in an email, as an alternative.

The only way to save (or print) a copy that actually includes your comments is to right-click on the completed form and select the "print..." option.  Then click the Save button in the upper left corner of your screen (don't check the "save as PDF" box, as this also doesn't work).  Once you've saved a "real" copy, you can print it using standard Adobe reader functionality (the embedded buttons still won't work).  If you open the "real" copy in Adobe you can also copy your text to paste into other communications.  Like to the Guv-ner.

Here's the official form:
http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/rail/sooner/dataroom/sooner_comment_form.pdf

And here's where the Eastern Flyer supporters suggest you send your comments to:
rfprail@odot.org

[RDW]

The Tulsa City Council took a stand tonight and, by a 9-0 vote, approved a Resolution against the sale of the Sooner Sub rail line.  9-0, by the way, is veto proof, if our Mayor should choose to take that action.  The OKC city Council is due to consider similar or identical language at their next meeting on Tuesday.

[Conan71]

The Tulsa City Council took a stand tonight and, by a 9-0 vote, approved a Resolution against the sale of the Sooner Sub rail line.  9-0, by the way, is veto proof, if our Mayor should choose to take that action.  The OKC city Council is due to consider similar or identical language at their next meeting on Tuesday.

Can they make that binding on ODOT, though?

[RDW]

No, there's no way to make it binding.  It's just an expression of the Tulsa City Council's opinion.  The Governor has the ultimate decision.  I'm hopeful that, if Tulsa and OKC, the two largest cities in the state and the two cities who would be most directly affected, express the same opinion, she will listen.

[Conan71]

No, there's no way to make it binding.  It's just an expression of the Tulsa City Council's opinion.  The Governor has the ultimate decision.  I'm hopeful that, if Tulsa and OKC, the two largest cities in the state and the two cities who would be most directly affected, express the same opinion, she will listen.

Let's hope she's a good listener.

[Hoss]

Let's hope she's a good listener.

You owe me a keyboard and a cup of coffee...

[Conan71]

You owe me a keyboard and a cup of coffee...

That was pretty cruel, I should have posted a warning.

[carltonplace]

How was the first trip?

[PonderInc]

We went on Sunday - it was really fun.  Bear in mind, that everyone was there to ride the train.  This is one case where it definitely was all about the journey. 

It was a pretty good mix of people on the train.  In our coach, we had a group of 20-somethings headed to the Thunder game, a bunch of Amish people, families with young kids, and just a nice mixture of people of all ages.

I love train travel b/c it's so comfortable.  You can get up and move around.  The scenery is better and more surprising (it's not the typical interstate corridor that we've all seen a million times).  The landscape is not defined by corporate America, it's just farms and houses, and small towns and all the stuff that you would never see from the interstate.  Much more intimate than the interstate--more like Route 66, which the tracks sort of parallel.  Oh and you can drink and not have to drive!  (Did I mention the excellent Bloody Marys that were served on board?)

We knew it was going to be a slow train, so we weren't in any hurry and didn't feel impatient.  I think our top speed was about 40-45 MPH.  If the state doesn't sell this line, a passenger rail company could make additional improvements to the tracks and crossings, or even invest in the type of rail cars that can take curves at higher speeds.  They said that if they get the chance to operate this rail line in the future, they would expect to go about 60-65 MPH.

Also, they said that in the future, they could actually go from Tulsa's Depot to the Santa Fe Depot in OKC (where the Amtrak station is, I think).  That would be ideal.  We had to do a short bus transfer from the train yard in OKC to get to Bricktown.  That's OK for these preliminary excursions, but it would be way better to go station to station.

We had a great day.  It was long, but fun.  Totally worth it!