Need advice (ill mannered customers)

[TheArtist]

    So, as many of you know I have a new shop downtown.  99% of the people who come in are great.  I enjoy talking to most of them and we get all types.  On occasion though you get some that behave poorly and can make people uncomfortable.

Last night I had a couple of older gentlemen come in and they seemed all friendly at first, full of smiles and hello's.  Then they started talking to the customers about "God" and Jesus, asking if they knew the Lord and where they went to church and other religious/political questions and comments.  And they were quite loud about it.  Then they came up to the counter and started talking to me and the other person working that night about how the US was created as a Christian nation and how the constitution was such and such a percent right out of the bible, etc.  

Now at first when they were talking to the customers I almost got up from where I was to ask them to not do so, but was trying to figure out how and what to say.  Then they moved on so it did pass.  But then they started with me and at first I just kind of smiled and did the ol agreeable, be nice thing but you could tell they were either 1. Looking for someone to agree with them and really strike up a buddy buddy conversation. or 2. Trying to provoke you into a long argument/discussion that you and I know wouldn't change anyones minds or get anywhere.

Neither of those options was even slightly anything that I wanted to do, but they just kept at it and sometimes these types of people can go on and on and on and on.

So after a few minutes of hoping they would give up and go on and then them not... I asked them to leave.  Then they got offended and asked why, etc.  etc. trying to draw you into an argument.  Then I started yelling at them to get out which is not what I wanted to do with customers in the shop but you could tell this could go on and on and I wanted them gone. And it took quite a while for me to get them out.

So what can be said or done better in these types of situation?

They were "just talking" and being "nice and friendly" so to speak.  Nothing wrong with that per say.  But it was the manner in what they were talking about that which was "inappropriate" imho.  But how can you explain that to these people, without again being drawn into a long argument that will essentially go no where and waste your time, in the middle of a store?

Luckily the customers then came up to me afterward and we all had a good conversation and laugh.  They said they had just lied about where they went to church and all to try and get the guys to leave them alone.  They were not from Tulsa were in town visiting and seeing the sights.  Well at least they got some free entertainment lol.

The day before a young man came in with some sort of musical device playing.  It wasn't super loud but was loud enough to drown out our background music and he would occasionally sing a little bit to the music as he went around the shop.  And I am again in the position of thinking, "Ok this is inappropriate behavior, how do I approach him and what do I say?"  Fortunately he was the only other person in the shop at that moment and finally he stopped playing the music after a while before others came in.  He has come into the shop before and I would guess that he is in his late teens/early 20's and I gather he stays at one of the shelters. He is very nice but seems socially awkward, immature and eccentric.  One time he came in wearing underwear over pajamas and had crazy hair lol. Though challenging at times, I am always nice to him, try to listen and be helpful and supportive.  And you do get your share of eccentrics but where and can you draw a line on what is "inappropriately eccentric/creative"? lol

But again, what do you do in these situations without being drawn into an argument or coming across as unreasonable or "ill mannered" myself?

These types of things can be troubling, and even quite disturbing to some of my young employees, especially when they are working the shop by themselves, and any advice on some good wordage (perhaps some company policies that others have to help their employees handle these situations) would be much appreciated.  What can you even do legally in these situations?  Online searches yield a gamut of sometimes opposing advice. 

[Rookie Okie]

Artist, with respect to the older gentlemen, you mentioned that you were hoping they would give up the soapbox before you asked them to leave.  Perhaps along with hoping, I might have pulled the men aside and stated that while we respect your right to possess your religious beliefs, the loud and intrusive BEHAVIOR was creating an uncomfortable customer environment.  If you could please respect our other customers, it would be greatly appreciated.  If they persisted, then I'd have done exactly what you did.

The operative word above is "behavior", and of course inappropriate behavior is not limited to loud religious ranting, loud music and singing, panhandling, etc.. People must understand that they have no right to enter an establishment and disrupt or adversely impact business.  Their actions may prevent customers from ever returning or others from ever venturing in for the first time if/when word got out about the "drama in that place."

So I understand your concern for solutions on how to deal with these types of issues, as similar incidences will likely increase as downtown becomes more of a destination and business grows.  As you have traveled extensively, you're probably aware that this comes with the territory (but is dealt with quite effectively) in larger thriving downtown retail meccas such as NYC, SF, and Toronto.

Perhaps there are other nearby businesses that are also dealing with the same issues.  Have these issues been discussion  topics at any of the downtown merchants forums?   

I hear nothing but good things about the store, and I will get myself down there one of these days soon to check it out.

[AquaMan]

I worked retail for several years back in the 70's and then again just a few years ago. It is brutal business because you "entertain" such a wide variety of people. I imagine it is even harder when you are the owner. I especially detested those who came in trolling for potential employees or prospects for their own businesses (insurance, multi-level, medical cures, stocks, etc.) And those who come in angry to take their wrath out on lowly paid employees. They waste the salesperson's time and diminish the stores profitability. But you are open to the public and must maintain professionalism.

You can't be overly sensitive to them. They will always take advantage of your courtesy. Take charge quickly. As the previous poster said, you have to be direct and blunt. If they are approaching other customers with their rants, immediately interrupt with offers to help them shop, not talk. Pre loaded statements designed to redirect them make it go smoother. "I would love to talk religion/politics/memories/ with you at another time and place but right now we're focused on Art Deco."

If you can, avoid always being the "owner". Use it as your last tool.

There is occasionally some payback. We had one a**hole who would come in eating food, usually a peach. When approached he would never respond and only grunt, then throw the food on the floor as he walked around the store. He scared the other employees. I just followed him silently till he left. Never bought anything. A couple weeks ago I saw his pic in the newspaper. You don't forget faces of those kind of people. He had been arrested for drunk driving, assaulting a police officer and outraging public decency. Sweet.

[davideinstein]

Honestly, kick them out.

If I feel like anyone is a problem, I immediately kick them out. I define a problem as someone who bothers the other customers. One person is not worth the expense of the other 99%.

[davideinstein]

By the way, I came into work today for my driver and assistant to tell me that a homeless guy came in with a fake gun this morning making gun noises at the front door before I got here.

The best option I've come up with is just contacting the police for the downtown area that I met at one of the Deco Meetings (JJ Pearl). They are very civil and help with awkward situations.

[RecycleMichael]

Here is my advice to The Artist...

Walk up to him while acting as if you are talking on the phone. Say to the phone, "I'll tell him. Always good to talk to you, Goodbye "

Then say to the guy, "That was Jesus on the phone. He says that you are turning people off and making things worse. He said you should quit it."

Then walk away.

[BKDotCom]

Here is my advice to The Artist...

Walk up to him while acting as if you are talking on the phone. Say to the phone, "I'll tell him. Always good to talk to you, Goodbye "

Then say to the guy, "That was Jesus on the phone. He says that you are turning people off and making things worse. He said you should quit it."

Then walk away.

Nice. 
or say "That was Jesus... he says you should buy something."

sounds like they were browsing the customers more than the merchandise. 

[Ed W]

As I've been told, a store is private property and a customer can simply be asked to leave without a reason being given. If he refuses, he can be arrested for trespassing.

I worked in a shop in Pittsburgh where the Moonies would come in occasionally. They were nicely groomed and always well dressed, but they could go on for a long time in an attempt to proselytize me or any customers. I was polite to the first one, but somewhat shorter with the next. Finally, if a guy in a suit came through the door carrying flowers, I immediately asked, "Are you with the Unification Church?" Then I threw them out.

My boss was from Germany. He was generally appalled at the slovenly appearance of most Americans, so a prosperous looking, well dressed one got his attention. He blew up at me for throwing one of these guys out until I told him the story. 

[Conan71]

Rookie Okie is correct on the best way to deal with it. 

This is actually the kind of thing that I was concerned with when we were discussing the bill in Arizona last week.  You have a right to protect your customers from uncomfortable situations and to even kick people out of your shop who are openly espousing beliefs you don't share.  Just be aware though that those people can claim "discrimination".

In reality, these two men were behaving like complete wankers, but there's nothing to keep them from finding a sleazebag attorney who would file a suit against you for refusing service for what they would call "religious discrimination."

[Cats Cats Cats]

This is pretty interesting this happened so close to the Arizona bill.

[dbacksfan 2.0]

Rookie Okie is correct on the best way to deal with it. 

This is actually the kind of thing that I was concerned with when we were discussing the bill in Arizona last week.  You have a right to protect your customers from uncomfortable situations and to even kick people out of your shop who are openly espousing beliefs you don't share.  Just be aware though that those people can claim "discrimination".

In reality, these two men were behaving like complete wankers, but there's nothing to keep them from finding a sleazebag attorney who would file a suit against you for refusing service for what they would call "religious discrimination."

you know this is going to happen at some point in time. As Ed brought up,

As I've been told, a store is private property and a customer can simply be asked to leave without a reason being given. If he refuses, he can be arrested for trespassing.

Doesn't that go back to "Owner reserves the right to refuse service" sign? I will have to look around, but I know there are places here that actually still have those signs in place.

[patric]

Doesn't that go back to "Owner reserves the right to refuse service" sign? I will have to look around, but I know there are places here that actually still have those signs in place.

[dbacksfan 2.0]

Back to Artist's issue, and as pointed out by Rookie, it's that line you have to walk as an owner in dealing with peoples behavior, and unfortunately you can't legislate that, it supposed to be taught.

I would love to approach some one like that, and if they are scouting for a church, ask them which one, and then go to that church and scout for customers during services.

[Breadburner]

Ask them to leave and give them a tress pass notice....

[Weatherdemon]

Rookie Okie is correct on the best way to deal with it. 

This is actually the kind of thing that I was concerned with when we were discussing the bill in Arizona last week.  You have a right to protect your customers from uncomfortable situations and to even kick people out of your shop who are openly espousing beliefs you don't share.  Just be aware though that those people can claim "discrimination".

In reality, these two men were behaving like complete wankers, but there's nothing to keep them from finding a sleazebag attorney who would file a suit against you for refusing service for what they would call "religious discrimination."

If they aren't purchasing anything or even actively browsing merchandise, but just pushing their cause to other patrons and store personnel, I think you would be fine in simply asking them to leave.