Ukraine

[AquaMan]

Did you read the article, or who wrote it, and what the author was defending? Please aqua, don't lead with your chin with me....

yes I did. You were exposed. If you don't like the source don't link to it.

[Gaspar]

To the rescue!

This is the strength we should have seen from President Obama, and SS John Kerry yesterday.  This is how you send a strong message of condemnation, but do it in such a way as to urge negotiation.



http://www.presstelegram.com/general-news/20140304/hillary-clinton-compares-vladimir-putins-actions-in-ukraine-to-adolf-hitlers-in-nazi-germany

LONG BEACH >> Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton on Tuesday compared recent actions by Russian President Vladimir Putin in the Ukraine to those implemented by Adolf Hitler in the late 1930s.

Putin's desire to protect minority Russians in Ukraine is reminiscent of Hitler's actions to protect ethnic Germans outside Germany, she said.

Putin has been on a campaign to give Russian passports to anyone who has Russian connections, Clinton said.

The Russian leader has recently done so in the Ukrainian peninsula of Crimea, which, Clinton said, is similar to what happened in Nazi Germany in the late 1930s. Hitler resettled tens of thousands of ethnic Germans who were living in parts of Europe to Nazi Germany.

Putin is a man "who believes his mission is to restore Russian greatness," Clinton said.

That includes reasserting control of what used to be countries under the former Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact, she said.

"When he looks at Ukraine, he sees a place that he believes is by its very nature part of Mother Russia."

If Ukraine and Russia are to reach any kind of compromise, negotiations may start in Crimea, Clinton said.

"I think that's where the negotiations will start," she said.

"So everybody is hoping that there will be a negotiation but a negotiation that respects Ukraine and doesn't ratify a reoccupation by Russia of Crimea," she said. "So it's a real nail-biter, right now, but nobody wants to up the rhetoric. Everybody wants to cool it in order to find a diplomatic solution and that's what we should be trying to do."

Instead we got:
Obama: "we stand on the side of history" and Kerry:"Invasion is not the act of someone who is strong. It is the act of someone who is weak." **throws medals away, and sheds a tear**


I wouldn't at all be surprised if she flies to Russia to meet with Vlad immediately.  Meanwhile Kerry gets stood-up.

[AquaMan]

So, we can expect you to support her in the next presidential campaign? Not likely.

You cherry picked quotes from these guys and put them with light weight pics while showing Cllinton's remarks in full with a serious pic. Must just be pissing you off that this is going to be resolved under the leadership of people you work so hard to denigrate. You wanted war talk and all you're going to get is yet another diplomatic solution. Dang. Truth is, it makes you lose more and more credibility.

[nathanm]

I think I finally figured it out. The wingers want us to bomb Russia so that they will launch some nukes and set off nuclear winter, thus stopping global warming in its tracks! 

Interestingly, it turns out that India and Pakistan launching even a third of their arsenals at each other (less than 50 bombs total) would pump 5 gigatons of smoke and ash into the upper atmosphere, cutting off 10-20% of the sunlight for 4-5 years.

[Gaspar]

So, we can expect you to support her in the next presidential campaign? Not likely.

You cherry picked quotes from these guys and put them with light weight pics while showing Cllinton's remarks in full with a serious pic. Must just be pissing you off that this is going to be resolved under the leadership of people you work so hard to denigrate. You wanted war talk and all you're going to get is yet another diplomatic solution. Dang. Truth is, it makes you lose more and more credibility.

Why in the hell do you think I would want war talk?  Clinton made a forceful and degrading analogy and then she showed actual understanding of the situation and a desire for resolution that involved negotiation.

Obama an Kerry have yet to say anything meaningful, and I think even their fanatical apologists would like to see that.

War grows out of ignorance, indecision and unwillingness to present a clear foreign policy.  Putin is doing what he is doing because he knows he can expect little from Obama except confusion.  It's like watching Garry Kasparov play chess with a muppet.  Hopefully it is not too late and leaders like the Clintons can work to bring parties together or at least advise the president on how to lead in this situation.

I would not rule out voting for Hillary.  I respect her cunning and the Clinton free-market economic policies that value small business.  I disliked her socialized approach to medicine, but that's a dead subject now.

[Townsend]

Why in the hell do you think I would want war talk?  Clinton made a forceful and degrading analogy and then she showed actual understanding of the situation and a desire for resolution that involved negotiation.

Obama an Kerry have yet to say anything meaningful, and I think even their fanatical apologists would like to see that.

War grows out of ignorance, indecision and unwillingness to present a clear foreign policy.  Putin is doing what he is doing because he knows he can expect little from Obama except confusion.  It's like watching Garry Kasparov play chess with a muppet.  Hopefully it is not too late and leaders like the Clintons can work to bring parties together or at least advise the president on how to lead in this situation.

I would not rule out voting for Hillary.  I respect her cunning and the Clinton free-market economic policies that value small business.  I disliked her socialized approach to medicine, but that's a dead subject now.

Are you under the impression that Obama's done nothing about this?

[Gaspar]

Are you under the impression that Obama's done nothing about this?

Where has he emerged as leading on this?

He campaigns well.  He leads poorly. He needs surrogates to manage such issues.

He is a rhetorical president.

[AquaMan]

Gas, Why? Because I read and re-read your posts (and pics) on this thread. That's when you showed the most enthusiasm and glee when you could show a line of howitzers or post a misleading gush about a missile being fired.

You have no idea, none, nothing, zero knowledge of what is being said between leaders and their secretaries of state. You quote others and offer opinions. Kind of like a Fox news personality.

Former SS Clinton's remarks are nothing more than comments from the outside that are not only common knowledge but are likely being used so that the president isn't having to posture like Putin did. This is a team president.  She didn't speak without some prior contact with the administration I assure you.

[Gaspar]

Gas, Why? Because I read and re-read your posts (and pics) on this thread. That's when you showed the most enthusiasm and glee when you could show a line of howitzers or post a misleading gush about a missile being fired.

You have no idea, none, nothing, zero knowledge of what is being said between leaders and their secretaries of state. You quote others and offer opinions. Kind of like a Fox news personality.

Former SS Clinton's remarks are nothing more than comments from the outside that are not only common knowledge but are likely being used so that the president isn't having to posture like Putin did. This is a team president.  She didn't speak without some prior contact with the administration I assure you.

Perhaps you are right.  Perhaps presenting the optics of feckless foreign policy is part of a larger strategy far more brilliant than any of us know.

Lets see what happens. You good with that?

[Townsend]

Where has he emerged as leading on this?

Where has it emerged that he's done nothing?  The GOP? 

What have they said he's not done?  I bet if you took a look, it has been done and they are in denial.

We post on these threads pretending to know something.  Hell, we don't have a clue about things happening around Tulsa much less internationally.

[Conan71]

To the rescue!

This is the strength we should have seen from President Obama, and SS John Kerry yesterday.  This is how you send a strong message of condemnation, but do it in such a way as to urge negotiation.



http://www.presstelegram.com/general-news/20140304/hillary-clinton-compares-vladimir-putins-actions-in-ukraine-to-adolf-hitlers-in-nazi-germany

LONG BEACH >> Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton on Tuesday compared recent actions by Russian President Vladimir Putin in the Ukraine to those implemented by Adolf Hitler in the late 1930s.

Putin's desire to protect minority Russians in Ukraine is reminiscent of Hitler's actions to protect ethnic Germans outside Germany, she said.

Putin has been on a campaign to give Russian passports to anyone who has Russian connections, Clinton said.

The Russian leader has recently done so in the Ukrainian peninsula of Crimea, which, Clinton said, is similar to what happened in Nazi Germany in the late 1930s. Hitler resettled tens of thousands of ethnic Germans who were living in parts of Europe to Nazi Germany.

Putin is a man "who believes his mission is to restore Russian greatness," Clinton said.

That includes reasserting control of what used to be countries under the former Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact, she said.

"When he looks at Ukraine, he sees a place that he believes is by its very nature part of Mother Russia."

If Ukraine and Russia are to reach any kind of compromise, negotiations may start in Crimea, Clinton said.

"I think that's where the negotiations will start," she said.

"So everybody is hoping that there will be a negotiation but a negotiation that respects Ukraine and doesn't ratify a reoccupation by Russia of Crimea," she said. "So it's a real nail-biter, right now, but nobody wants to up the rhetoric. Everybody wants to cool it in order to find a diplomatic solution and that's what we should be trying to do."

Instead we got:
Obama: "we stand on the side of history" and Kerry:"Invasion is not the act of someone who is strong. It is the act of someone who is weak." **throws medals away, and sheds a tear**


I wouldn't at all be surprised if she flies to Russia to meet with Vlad immediately.  Meanwhile Kerry gets stood-up.

I called that one correctly.  Punt it to one of the Clintons.

[AquaMan]

Perhaps you are right.  Perhaps presenting the optics of feckless foreign policy is part of a larger strategy far more brilliant than any of us know.

Lets see what happens. You good with that?

You just had to throw in a perjorative dintja?

I'm never as happy with sarcasm as I am with faith. I have faith in my government whether its Fallin, Inhofe, Reid, Boehner or Coumo that they are operating with more information than I have, better advisors and with all our best interests at heart. Without that faith I'd have to become a tea partier.

[Gaspar]

Where has it emerged that he's done nothing?  The GOP? 

What have they said he's not done?  I bet if you took a look, it has been done and they are in denial.

We post on these threads pretending to know something.  Hell, we don't have a clue about things happening around Tulsa much less internationally.

No.  All we see is what is reported in the international media.

[AquaMan]

Oh yeah. Cause all you need to know about international politics can be found in editorial cartoons.

[Townsend]

No.  All we see is what is reported in the international media.

What has the US not done that it should do pertaining to Ukraine?