Ukraine

[RecycleMichael]

Is this your best effort? Did you read a bumper sticker and find truth?

Please explain how the US should ignore this Ukraine election? Or not?

Please explain how keeping us out of war so far is also wrong. Or right?

If you have to refer to past wars to make your argument, OK.

[Hoss]

Looks like someone has a new buddy..... To your post, tell us what Obama has done right, and we can talk.

Nope, merely pointing out the obvious, counselor.

[guido911]

Nope, merely pointing out the obvious, counselor.

Nope. You are once again merely parroting someone else's point, obviously.

[guido911]

Please explain how the US should ignore this Ukraine election?

I'm telling CF on you.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Talk about what? I thought Iraq and Afghanistan were right calls. I think you are not even trying anymore...

Every time you show evidence of intellect, you go an put out a statement like Iraq was the right call....

Geez, what are we gonna do with you?

[heironymouspasparagus]

Looks like someone has a new buddy..... To your post, tell us what Obama has done right, and we can talk.

I made my specific recommendations.  What are yours??  Specifically....

Exactly HOW would you do things differently?  And what would you do?

Or is this also your ACA mode response?

[heironymouspasparagus]

Nope. You are once again merely parroting someone else's point, obviously.

Pot, meet kettle!

Kettle, meet pot!

[heironymouspasparagus]

Is this your best effort? Did you read a bumper sticker and find truth?

Please explain how the US should ignore this Ukraine election? Or not?

Please explain how keeping us out of war so far is also wrong. Or right?

If you have to refer to past wars to make your argument, OK.

Tough to get a legitimate discussion around here, ain't it?  Well, yes, he is parroting the "bumper sticker"-land point of view.

So far, we have done pretty much the standard diplomatic response routine.  This will likely not make much difference about Crimea.  I would like to see NATO step up and move in with the Ukrainians - move 100,000 NATO troops with equipment into Ukraine for training and supply - it is just joint exercises, after all.  After they ask for help, of course.  And NATO/EU should have an emergency meeting to act on any requests that Ukraine has regarding membership in both NATO and the EU.  And we should support that fully - shipping stuff as fast as possible after these approvals....make Ukraine one of us as quick as possible - 2 or 3 days should be more than enough time.  Rapid response force time.  Get some missile defense capability there now. 

If they really want to be part of Europe, then now is the time for them to step up, start drafting people for the army - activate their million man reserve and make the break.  And the EU and us should be prepared to support this for a while.  This is a whole lot like the Cuban missile crisis - except we don't have Jack Kennedy to go through it.


Or if they don't ask, then let Russia have them.

[Hoss]

Nope. You are once again merely parroting someone else's point, obviously.

Obviously.

But then again, I don't bloviate like some on here because I like to see my musings on the internet.

Nor do I do it a 3am, much less.  And use a/v cues almost exclusively to try to make a point.

Woe is me.  Guido doesn't like me.  I think I'll go have a drink.  It is St. Patty's Day, dontcha know...

[Gaspar]

Why do I get the feeling that President Obama can do nothing right according to you two?

Only when he does things wrong.

History has shown that to avoid war, when dealing with tyranny, you must negotiate from a position of strength, else your advisory will regard you as inconsequential.   

As I said days ago when this thing began, we should have immediately threatened to sever economic ties, freeze accounts, and stop all aid to Russia.  We should have shown resolve, and if Putin continued his advance we should have done just that.  Russia's economy is already tattered and severance from US and European markets would devastate them.  Instead, we gave several half-hearted speeches filled with hollow threats, and when it came down to it, the president "unleashed" his sanctions (that only affected a handful of individual Russians), and was met with a bronx cheer.  Yesterday Russia's Dept. Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin (one of the 11 Russians hit with Obama's watery sanctions) laughed and called President Obama a "prankster."  On Twitter he made fun of Obama, saying that he (Rogozin) doesn't have any assets in the US for Obama to freeze anyway.  Our delay has given Russia the opportunity to move money and other assets away from our control. 

As for the vote. . .first of all, it's not legal.  If Russia marched 60,000 troops into Sitka and decided to have the Alaskan Russians vote to join Russia, that would not be legal either. About 12% of the population of Crimea are Taters who hate the Russians and boycotted the election, yet they report that 83% of the total population voted.  CNN even videoed people stuffing the ballots.  Crimea is part of the Ukraine, just as Sitka is part of the US.  If Sitka wishes to rejoin Russia, they could vote for succession in a lawful way.  For Russia to just invade is a violation of The United Nations charter (article 2(4)), which prohibits "the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations."  That is precisely why Putin hatched this idea for a vote, to invent some kind of legal premise on the grounds that he was somehow emancipating Crimea from the Ukraine. 

If Crimea wants to join Russia, then they should be allowed to.  If Russia wants to welcome them with open arms, that is wonderful.  However you do not legally accomplish that through invasion and overtly fraudulent election.  Our actions on this sets a precedent on how we will deal with this in the future, and so far we are not doing a very good job.

On a brighter note, Obama has recalled the failure we know as John Kerry and dispatched Joe Biden to travel to Poland to denounce Putin's actions.  I am hopeful that Biden does a better job.  Kerry's performance was disgraceful.


I know you really really want to defend President Obama, but there is nothing to defend here.  He is making us look very very bad.

[Gaspar]

This is the snowball that takes shape when we project weakness.  Even our allies are making fun of us.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/18/us-israel-usa-idUSBREA2H0SV20140318

[heironymouspasparagus]

Putin had earlier, in December, appointed Dmitry Kiselyov to be head of the Russian state run news agency, charged with portraying Russia in the best possible light.

He is the one who came out a day or two ago and said, ""Russia is the only country in the world that is realistically capable of turning the United States into radioactive ash."  With a mushroom cloud behind him on the screen.

One thing I thought was extremely interesting, and goes to a theme I have ranted about to friends and family since the cold war "ended"....Russia is NOT our friend.  They are not even a good business partner.  They are thugs, crooks, criminals, "mafia", etc.  And we ignore that for some short term profits that are likely more than offset by costs of increased criminal activity here.  We got them here in Tulsa....company started by their mafia - well, to be fair, no company in Russia is run by anything other than their mafia...

http://news.yahoo.com/russia-turn-u-radioactive-ash-kremlin-backed-journalist-223608042--sector.html

[Gaspar]

Putin had earlier, in December, appointed Dmitry Kiselyov to be head of the Russian state run news agency, charged with portraying Russia in the best possible light.

He is the one who came out a day or two ago and said, ""Russia is the only country in the world that is realistically capable of turning the United States into radioactive ash."  With a mushroom cloud behind him on the screen.

One thing I thought was extremely interesting, and goes to a theme I have ranted about to friends and family since the cold war "ended"....Russia is NOT our friend.  They are not even a good business partner.  They are thugs, crooks, criminals, "mafia", etc.  And we ignore that for some short term profits that are likely more than offset by costs of increased criminal activity here.  We got them here in Tulsa....company started by their mafia - well, to be fair, no company in Russia is run by anything other than their mafia...

http://news.yahoo.com/russia-turn-u-radioactive-ash-kremlin-backed-journalist-223608042--sector.html

Hopefully Biden puts forth a meaningful message in Poland today.  Obama would have gone himself, but he's booked!  He has a DNC fundraiser at the Jefferson Hotel tonight and two fundraisers in Miami on Thursday.

[nathanm]

This is the snowball that takes shape when we project weakness.  Even our allies are making fun of us.

You missed the snowball that took shape when we decided to project "power" a few times during the last administration? People were laughing at us then, too, you just thought they were laughing with you instead of at you and the rest of us.

[guido911]

Just as a FYI, only because a few folks have commented on that. I am up at 3AM sometimes because I am WORKING. That's what small business folks do sometimes, is work late to make the business run and grow. Working at 3AM is a GOOD thing in my book since that means I have work to do and people to help. There. Everyone who is concerned with that can rest easy.