How Do You Hide A Boeing 777?

[Conan71]

The investigation into the lost Malaysian Airlines 777 just keeps getting more interesting.  Curious what other’s theories are.  I’m thinking it landed somewhere since there is no sign of wreckage and none of the emergency beacons have activated.  Why would a rogue crew fly a plane off course for hours only to intentionally ditch it into the ocean, that wouldn’t accomplish any means.  If it were an act of terrorism, some group would have taken credit for it by now. 

For that matter, if they did land somewhere, what has become of the passengers? 

Quite a mystery.

Discuss.

[dbacksfan 2.0]

My first thought after hearing that none of the distress/crash beacons had been activated was where could it have been flown to relatively undetected, and I thought the Maldives was kind of ideal. To far north to be picked up by Diego Garcia, and to far south for India. The northern track especially over land just seem too difficult too many civilian and military radar points, and south east towards Australia and New Zealand if they got within 200 miles of land would be picked up on radar.

But not hearing, as we've been told, that no one has claimed responsibility, and no other evidence has been released as to a possible end game. If it went down in the Indian Ocean, who knows when it might be found.

[dioscorides]

Why would a rogue crew fly a plane off course for hours only to intentionally ditch it into the ocean, that wouldn’t accomplish any means.  If it were an act of terrorism, some group would have taken credit for it by now. 

This is what I can't get my head around.  The fact that the flight simulator was found wiped clean in the pilot's home has me also believing that they are trying to land somewhere else.

[dbacksfan 2.0]

This is what I can't get my head around.  The fact that the flight simulator was found wiped clean in the pilot's home has me also believing that they are trying to land somewhere else.

Makes you wonder what he was practicing on the simulator. Anyone can build one like he had and simulator software has been available for years for home use, but it's what was erased that's the red flag, but could be nothing as well.

As for the rogue crew, if it was steal the plane for future use to me would imply a larger number of people, and if that's the case, where are the passengers?

As for flying for hours and no contact, (text, email) shut of the onboard communications for passengers, there are no cell towers over water, and other than the speculation of it flying to 45,000ft and then back down to 23,000ft, most of the maneuvers and flight over water at night, no one in the cabin would know of the course change.

[Hoss]

This is what I can't get my head around.  The fact that the flight simulator was found wiped clean in the pilot's home has me also believing that they are trying to land somewhere else.

BS

I am a pilot (expired paper though) and a former flightsimmer.  Just because there are 'deleted files' on the simulator (I've not heard the term 'wiped clean') doesn't mean anything.  News outlets are jumping to conclusions on this.

That being said, Malaysian authorities are not being very forthcoming..obviously.

News media aren't helping matters by speculating.  It muddies the waters.  What we know for sure:

Last ACARS message was sent about 14 minutes before the transponder was turned off...this is a message from the cockpit (usually coded via text) that the airline receives.  Typically maintenance info (fuel burn rate, alt, etc)

Malaysian military radar picked the aircraft up about 45 minutes after the transponder was deactivated (primary return only).

About 5.5 hours later, a satellite received a ping from the aircraft, but only one ping.  Without two other satellites receiving this, there is no way to accurately pinpoint where it was.

And I'll take my time to say this much...CNN has found as annoying, or even more, annoying of a correspondent than Piers Morgan.  Richard Quest takes the cake there.

And CNN anchors really need to do some of their own research before spouting off some of the silliness I've heard over the last 10 days.

[AquaMan]

Fascinating to me. As a non pilot type I am surprised at how easy it could be rendered invisible or at least plausibly rendered invisible. This is going to make a great movie with multiple possible endings. Right now its just a reminder how dedicated humans can make technology look weak.

[dbacksfan 2.0]

BS

I am a pilot (expired paper though) and a former flightsimmer.  Just because there are 'deleted files' on the simulator (I've not heard the term 'wiped clean') doesn't mean anything.  News outlets are jumping to conclusions on this.

Very valid point, nothing illegal about having a simulator, and who knows, the deleted files could be aircraft he doesn't want to fly, or any number of innocuous items.

That being said, Malaysian authorities are not being very forthcoming..obviously.

I think they were never prepared for such an event.

News media aren't helping matters by speculating.  It muddies the waters.  What we know for sure:

Last ACARS message was sent about 14 minutes before the transponder was turned off...this is a message from the cockpit (usually coded via text) that the airline receives.  Typically maintenance info (fuel burn rate, alt, etc)

These seem to be the only absolutes at this time. Everything else is speculation, guesstimation.

Malaysian military radar picked the aircraft up about 45 minutes after the transponder was deactivated (primary return only).

This is the one that has me curious, although we have not heard any of the ATC (civilian or military) recordings of conversations, did either of them challenge an unidentified aircraft?

About 5.5 hours later, a satellite received a ping from the aircraft, but only one ping.  Without two other satellites receiving this, there is no way to accurately pinpoint where it was.

Yes all they got was the system polling all of the aircraft the cover, and all the got was the serial/ ID number for that aircraft, which if it works like systems I'm familiar with, you can't disable that ID, as it is separate from the system sending the data. It's also similar to the way a pike pass works.

And I'll take my time to say this much...CNN has found as annoying, or even more, annoying of a correspondent than Piers Morgan.  Richard Quest takes the cake there.

And CNN anchors really need to do some of their own research before spouting off some of the silliness I've heard over the last 10 days.

Richard Quest now reminds me of what would be an obnoxious character in a Monty Python skit, and the news anchors have no idea about the questions they ask.

[Conan71]

I’m trying to think of any pilot-instigated hijacking of a commercial airliner, and I don’t recall ever reading of one.  One more thing we’d not thought of.  Who ever thought someone would take over four commercial aircraft with the intention of flying them into buildings either?

[AquaMan]

I’m trying to think of any pilot-instigated hijacking of a commercial airliner, and I don’t recall ever reading of one.  One more thing we’d not thought of.  Who ever thought someone would take over four commercial aircraft with the intention of flying them into buildings either?

There was a commercial airliner off the northeast coast that suddenly dived into the Atlantic a few years back. They suspected the pilot committed suicide so in effect he hijacked the plane for personal reasons.

I wonder if one of the countries this plane flew over shot it down and is trying desperately to cover their tracks? If it flew over their country and they didn't shoot it down or escort it, they have some 'splainin to do.

[dbacksfan 2.0]

I’m trying to think of any pilot-instigated hijacking of a commercial airliner, and I don’t recall ever reading of one.  One more thing we’d not thought of.  Who ever thought someone would take over four commercial aircraft with the intention of flying them into buildings either?

International cases

There are international examples of crashes due to suicide, too.

In 1999, U.S. officials said the crash of EgyptAir Flight 990 was due to the co-pilot's suicide. The plane, which crashed into the Atlantic Ocean off Nantucket, was co-piloted by Gameel El-Batouty. He was alone on the flight deck when he switched off the auto-pilot and pointed the plane downward and repeated the phrase "I rely on God," 11 times. All 217 people on board were killed.

Egyptian officials refuted the suicide claim and blamed the crash on mechanical issues.

Similar questions were raised after the crash of SilkAir Flight 185, whichwent down in 1997 during a flight from Jakarta, Indonesia to Singapore, killing 104 on board. U.S. investigators said the plane crash was deliberate but Indonesian officials disagreed. Investigators said the plane fell 35,000 feet into a river in one minute and the cockpit voice recorder had been cut off.

Pilot suicide is also being considered in the November 2013 crash of a Mozambican Airline plane bound for Angola. The crash, which killed 33 people, is still under investigation.

http://blog.al.com/wire/2014/03/pilot_suicide_blamed_for_8_us.html

I guess you could call them "technically" hi-jacked.

As for 9/11, I don't know of any rational person that would think someone would turn a large commercial jet into a cruise missile before that day. Although on a smaller scale, Japanese Kamikaze pilots sort of come to mind.

[swake]

BS

I am a pilot (expired paper though) and a former flightsimmer.  Just because there are 'deleted files' on the simulator (I've not heard the term 'wiped clean') doesn't mean anything.  News outlets are jumping to conclusions on this.

That being said, Malaysian authorities are not being very forthcoming..obviously.

News media aren't helping matters by speculating.  It muddies the waters.  What we know for sure:

Last ACARS message was sent about 14 minutes before the transponder was turned off...this is a message from the cockpit (usually coded via text) that the airline receives.  Typically maintenance info (fuel burn rate, alt, etc)

Malaysian military radar picked the aircraft up about 45 minutes after the transponder was deactivated (primary return only).

About 5.5 hours later, a satellite received a ping from the aircraft, but only one ping.  Without two other satellites receiving this, there is no way to accurately pinpoint where it was.

And I'll take my time to say this much...CNN has found as annoying, or even more, annoying of a correspondent than Piers Morgan.  Richard Quest takes the cake there.

And CNN anchors really need to do some of their own research before spouting off some of the silliness I've heard over the last 10 days.

The most damning that I have heard is that the course change was programed in before the ACARS was turned off (would the pilot not have known ACARS records this change?) and long before the plane's transponder was turned off and the plane disappeared. This really tosses out the idea of any kind of catastrophic problem. This, whatever it is, was planned.

The transponder that was still sending was the engine to Boeing and not the plane's transponder to the Airline. Maybe the pilot or whoever didn't know about the engine transponder or had no access to it. On NPR they interviewed other 777 pilots and they said they had no idea how to turn off ACARS or the transponder short of figuring out which fuses to pull.

[patric]

If it were an act of terrorism, some group would have taken credit for it by now. 

A group in China did take credit for it, but it was shrugged off:
http://www.ibtimes.com/obscure-group-northwestern-china-chinese-martyrs-brigade-claims-responsibility-missing-malaysia

I was hopeful the day after, when Rolls-Royce announced it turned over engine telemetry to investigators.  Apparently they weren't supposed to have announced that, but it was the first clue that the jet remained airborne much longer than initially reported.

Im on the fence between failed hijacking, or the crew becoming incapacitated and the automation taking over.

[RecycleMichael]

Why is no one suggesting alien abduction?

Just wait till I say I told you so.

[dbacksfan 2.0]

Fascinating to me. As a non pilot type I am surprised at how easy it could be rendered invisible or at least plausibly rendered invisible. This is going to make a great movie with multiple possible endings. Right now its just a reminder how dedicated humans can make technology look weak.

Airport '77

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0q09eZ1s_Q

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0075648/synopsis?ref_=ttpl_pl_syn

[DTowner]

I thought this article raises some interesting points about what might have happened - and that sometimes the simple explanation is not the one we want to believe.

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2014/03/mh370-electrical-fire/