Solar and Wind Power Fees for Oklahomans

[sgrizzle]

If I don't and the solar/wind user is assessed because he sold back his excess capacity is that fair?

If you're selling something, you should pay cost associated to sell it.

Independent generators in Oklahoma have to pay a fee to put their electric on the grid. There are two large ones in the Tulsa metro. Why get a free ride because you sell a little?

Not to mention, this is a lot of debate over very little. Almost no-one has the setup to sell back to the grid. Generally people who have solar, wind, geothermal are using it to reduce usage and not power their neighborhood.

[AquaMan]

If you're selling something, you should pay cost associated to sell it.

Independent generators in Oklahoma have to pay a fee to put their electric on the grid. There are two large ones in the Tulsa metro. Why get a free ride because you sell a little?

Not to mention, this is a lot of debate over very little. Almost no-one has the setup to sell back to the grid. Generally people who have solar, wind, geothermal are using it to reduce usage and not power their neighborhood.

The seller paid to have the solar/geo system installed. The seller paid to have the grid attached to his home. The seller is not getting a free ride.

Aggregate sales and future revenues. Small amount currently (no pun intended) and few users but the law wasn't written capriciously. They can see the handwriting on the wall.

[sgrizzle]

The seller paid to have the solar/geo system installed. The seller paid to have the grid attached to his home. The seller is not getting a free ride.

Aggregate sales and future revenues. Small amount currently (no pun intended) and few users but the law wasn't written capriciously. They can see the handwriting on the wall.

If the person is selling and not using electricity, then they didn't pay a dime for the grid to be connected to their home, technically.

[Townsend]

Not to mention, this is a lot of debate over very little. Almost no-one has the setup to sell back to the grid. Generally people who have solar, wind, geothermal are using it to reduce usage and not power their neighborhood.

I trust you and your knowledge of these things.  You should probably call a meeting with the people in charge and tell them to clarify these things or expect the backlash.

[heironymouspasparagus]

If the person is selling and not using electricity, then they didn't pay a dime for the grid to be connected to their home, technically.

What??  Where did you get that??      (Sell crazy somewhere else,....we're all stocked up here...??)


Technically, yes...they do pay a dime.  Several dimes, in point of fact.  If you use 0 kwh - you still pay a monthly fee just to be connected.  If you fed electric back to the grid that offset that fee, then yes, you still did pay the fee, by supplying a certain dollar amount of power back to the grid - at a very much reduced, wholesale rate.  When the house was built, and the grid connected, there was a fee charged - which typically was financed for 30 years in the mortgage.... paying for the grid to be connected to their home...

[sgrizzle]

Technically, yes...they do pay a dime.  Several dimes, in point of fact.  If you use 0 kwh - you still pay a monthly fee just to be connected.

You pay a minimum monthly fee to keep the meter installed, read and billed. The cost of the lines is a part of the per/kwh fee.

If you fed electric back to the grid that offset that fee, then yes, you still did pay the fee, by supplying a certain dollar amount of power back to the grid - at a very much reduced, wholesale rate. 

That's not how selling electricity works. They sell the power for X dollars, then pay someone else Y dollars to get it to destination. Think UPS.

If company A wants to sell power to Company C, Then company C gives A $2,000 and then A pays company B $1,000 to transport it. No free shipping unless you own the lines from A to C.

When the house was built, and the grid connected, there was a fee charged - which typically was financed for 30 years in the mortgage.... paying for the grid to be connected to their home...

Pretty sure you just made this up, as I can find nothing other than a standard "connection charge" for new customers.

[sgrizzle]

I trust you and your knowledge of these things.  You should probably call a meeting with the people in charge and tell them to clarify these things or expect the backlash.

Technically this bill is better for about 99% of the people in Oklahoma as previously the costs of distributing power were paid only buy the people consuming and not by the people selling. Plus no-one has said what the fees would be. Could be $10, and a $10 charge to <1% of the population will stir up no-one by the time it takes effect in November.

[AquaMan]

Technically this bill is better for about 99% of the people in Oklahoma as previously the costs of distributing power were paid only buy the people consuming and not by the people selling. Plus no-one has said what the fees would be. Could be $10, and a $10 charge to <1% of the population will stir up no-one by the time it takes effect in November.

You're a good soldier Grizz but on soft earth. Consider why so much work spent to pass those fees when you note so little is gained and how much effort in opposing it.

BTW, h is right. You pay for linking through the grid w hen your development is platted, marketed, maintained and improved. As you say nothing is free. We know what is happening here, the argument is about who gets tops.

[patric]

No, the point of a smart meter is to automatically report it's usage data over 3G instead of being read manually, which means you can do variable rates.

Given the question, I think you meant to say  "Yes, the point of a smart meter is to automatically report it's usage data over 3G instead of being read manually, which means you can do variable rates."

[sgrizzle]

You're a good soldier Grizz but on soft earth. Consider why so much work spent to pass those fees when you note so little is gained and how much effort in opposing it.

My belief (no real knowledge) is that since solar and wind power is increasing in efficiency, they wanted to make sure that people don't start running their own little power companies and making the customers foot the cost of upgrading transformers, lines, etc.

While there may be some cost to run lines to a new addition, likely the infrastructure put in when all of our editions were originally plowed is not the same infrastructure in use today. New lines and transformers are being installed daily servicing existing customers paid for by the per/kwh fees.

[sgrizzle]

Given the question, I think you meant to say  "Yes, the point of a smart meter is to automatically report it's usage data over 3G instead of being read manually, which means you can do variable rates."

I said no because you said "the idea behind a Smart Meter to be able to track that rollback" when they are being put in to track usage, and I'm not sure the models being installed are even capable of recognizing and tracking the reverse.

[AquaMan]

My belief (no real knowledge) is that since solar and wind power is increasing in efficiency, they wanted to make sure that people don't start running their own little power companies and making the customers foot the cost of upgrading transformers, lines, etc.

While there may be some cost to run lines to a new addition, likely the infrastructure put in when all of our editions were originally plowed is not the same infrastructure in use today. New lines and transformers are being installed daily servicing existing customers paid for by the per/kwh fees.

I think you're partly right on both counts. The newer players in the game always pay more in current dollars. The older players have paid longer. I doubt there is much in common with typical business models.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Pretty sure you just made this up, as I can find nothing other than a standard "connection charge" for new customers.

Exactly.  That is the fee to get connected... connection charge or by whatever name they want to call it - still the same thing.

Have been helping a friend look into getting connected to Verdigris Valley Electric.  They will set up to 2 poles, wire from road, and set a transformer and meter for "free".  Then monthly fees/rates.  Given their reliability issues in the past, I wish they could get PSO.... even if it does have to belong to AEP....

[patric]

I said no because you said "the idea behind a Smart Meter to be able to track that rollback" when they are being put in to track usage, and I'm not sure the models being installed are even capable of recognizing and tracking the reverse.

The smart meters AEP is installing are capable of registering "net energy" where "Received" kWh (from a subscriber) is subtracted from "Delivered" kWh from a utility.
Looking at the LCD display, you will notice beneath the "caterpillar" (spinning disc) animation the "Delivered" annunciator with a flashing cursor.
The caterpillar runs backwards when energy is sent upstream to the utility, and displays the text "Received."

Interestingly, the meter is designed to never count below zero, so it will never register more kWh received from the subscriber than was delivered to the subscriber.  Basically, it stacks the deck in favor of the utility, which in theory means the customer could be giving away energy to the utility once the meter reaches a certain point.

[nathanm]

The fee is only applicable if you have solar or wind power and intend to SELL IT back onto the grid. That requires additional infrastructure, meters, billing systems, etc.

Your electric company saves money if you use a grid tied solar or wind system at residential scale. It reduces their peak power costs, it reduces their transmission costs, and it reduces their generation costs. The only extra cost involved, and this is going away now that they have single meters that can measure flow in either direction, is a second meter.

We are being forced to pay for saving the electric company money.

Yes, there might be costs in the future, when residential generation exceeds 20% of total demand, but we are nowhere near that yet.