Solar and Wind Power Fees for Oklahomans

[Red Arrow]

I understand the requirement to meet peak demand.  I think they already charge me more than enough for my hangar at RVS to use only a few KWH per month.  328 KWH total for the last 12 months with a range of 8 to 47 KWH per month. There are a lot of single ended feeds that guarantee a power outage every time a squirrel misses a jump.  I have no sympathy for PSO.

[sgrizzle]

Pay an additional fee to not opt out and save PSO money.  Doesn't sound like it's going to save me anything.

The rates you pay are directly tied to PSOs cost of doing business. Once they reduce workforce they reduce costs.

[Red Arrow]

The rates you pay are directly tied to PSOs cost of doing business. Once they reduce workforce they reduce costs.

I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for rates to go down. Billing everyone $3/mo for smart meters in order to save money for PSO is proof of that.  My basic rate at the hangar has more than tripled in the last few years.  That's before I use any electricity.

[heironymouspasparagus]

I understand the requirement to meet peak demand.  I think they already charge me more than enough for my hangar at RVS to use only a few KWH per month.  328 KWH total for the last 12 months with a range of 8 to 47 KWH per month. There are a lot of single ended feeds that guarantee a power outage every time a squirrel misses a jump.  I have no sympathy for PSO.

You are using practically nothing in the overall scheme of things.  One kw of solar cells would cover you easily with no connect to the grid - turn PSO off.  Less than $1,000 for the cells.  Area of about 6' x 10' total.  About 10 days of sun or so a month would cover you - more is just 'insurance'.

Less than $600 for batteries (Trojan T-105 Plus). 

3600 watts pure sine wave...$1,700.  Outback Power VFX3524 3500 Watt 24 Volt Vented Off-Grid Inverter\Charger - overkill unless you are running a lot of A/C.

$3,400 for system.

www.sunelec.com

[patric]

While not ready to cut the AEP cord just yet, I can see these replacing backup generators for most people:


For home users, Tesla will sell two Powerwall modules optimized either for backup (power failures) or load-shifting from afternoon to evening. For business, Tesla will sell massive battery packs that can load-shift power or provide short-term UPS-like coverage until the backup diesel generator kicks in. Awesome as Tesla's devices may be, they're good for hours, maybe a day — not as replacement power when the grid goes down for days at a time. Deliveries start later this year and the prices will be softened by federal tax credits of 30% of the battery price. California has a 60% be-a-fool-to-not-try-this rebate. Tesla's quantities of scale in manufacturing will also drive the price down.

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/204702-what-the-tesla-powerwall-home-battery-means-inexpensive-time-shifting-for-solar-energy

Some of Tesla's thinking is getting away from the concept of a "master" power supply; that you could have two or more smaller systems, like a separate garage/laundry and a cooking/living system.

[sgrizzle]

Solar + Battery + buying any extra needed electricity at variable rates (i.e. charging overnight) could = win

[patric]

According to the U.S. Energy Information Administration, the average annual kilowatt-hour use for a U.S. utility customer (in the year 2013) is 10,908, or 909 kilowatt-hours per month. Divide that by 30 and per day, an average U.S. customer uses about 30 kilowatt-hours. So the (Tesla) battery could cover roughly a third of this.

However, that's too simplistic an analysis, because really, a few key home appliances use up particularly large amounts of energy. For instance, running the laundry on "hot wash, warm rinse" takes up about 4.5 kilowatt-hours. Other devices, like your laptop computer or your TV, take up a lot less.

So what this means is that while 10 kilowatt-hours is probably not enough to power your whole home and all its utilities.  As backup, when you're not running the more energy hungry stuff, it would last for a while.

"If you were trying to go off grid with this, that would be a bit of a challenge," says Peter Lilienthal, the CEO of Homer Energy, which co-authored a recent report with the Rocky Mountain Institute on the future of solar plus battery systems in homes. "It really isn't designed for someone to cut the wire...But if you're just concerned with outages — I'm not baking in my electric oven during the outage — 10 kilowatt hours is plenty for your lights, your electronics, and an efficient refrigerator."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2015/05/01/what-backing-up-your-home-with-teslas-battery-might-be-like/?tid=pm_business_pop_b

[heironymouspasparagus]

Solar + Battery + buying any extra needed electricity at variable rates (i.e. charging overnight) could = win

It reached parity a couple years ago for your home - installed cost versus grid power - if all things are equal (which they never are).  Still not convinced I can cut the line to the grid - am looking at an installation now and the utility cost to bring power to the meter at the house is $0 - they pay for it all.  Doing present value calculation, it's hard to beat that plus $0.09 per kw/Hr.  For this house, it will make more sense to make insulated walls twice as thick, triple pane windows, etc.  Probably.  Maybe.

The biggest disincentive is the big up-front cost and the square feet of area it takes to go off grid.  Even with credits, it's substantial.

And for large, commercial systems, solar has parity with coal fired plants for overall cost of generation.  Wind is getting close.

[TeeDub]

Does PSO/AEP even offer variable rate pricing on electricity?

Isn't this a moot point in Tulsa?

[sgrizzle]

Does PSO/AEP even offer variable rate pricing on electricity?

You should visit the new PSO PowerForward (SmartGrid) display at Mayfest this year. A definitive answer inside you will find.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Does PSO/AEP even offer variable rate pricing on electricity?

Isn't this a moot point in Tulsa?

They have for commercial rates for a long time.  Have done testing at one time where paid as low as a penny and half per kwh at night.  Then, in the afternoon.... couple of bucks per kwh.  Big motor.

[saintnicster]

Does PSO/AEP even offer variable rate pricing on electricity?

Isn't this a moot point in Tulsa?

not currently,  but I'm guessing it'll be something they want to implement after the smart meter rollout is finished.

[TeeDub]

You should visit the new PSO PowerForward (SmartGrid) display at Mayfest this year. A definitive answer inside you will find.

You could have just said, "yes."   Then pointed me at the tariff.

https://www.psoklahoma.com/global/utilities/lib/docs/ratesandtariffs/Oklahoma/ResidentialService_05_04_2015.pdf


With those numbers, it would be tough to make it pay to go to the advanced metering and make it pay off....

On-Peak Season
$ 0.0171 (off peak cost) vs  $0.02891 (anytime cost for first 1350 kWh)   

Off peak season
Same rates for everyone

That may take forever to cost justify.

[RecycleMichael]

I can't believe you suckers pay for electricity.

I run a cord to my neighbor. They have been on vacation forever.

If you all need to charge up your electronic devices, come on over.

[heironymouspasparagus]

I can't believe you suckers pay for electricity.

I run a cord to my neighbor. They have been on vacation forever.

If you all need to charge up your electronic devices, come on over.

How about 7:30 this evening....