This is Bad

[Conan71]

Still.....ironic. It took 45 minutes for him to die.

I saw the Yahoo article that described over 300 death row inmates over the last few years that had been found innocent. Unacceptable. Even for the Murrah murderer.

I tried to locate that, there's been 144 whose charges were dropped, were pardoned, or acquitted since 1973 according to this list:

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/innocence-list-those-freed-death-row

According to Barry Scheck's Innocence Project web site, there have been 316 post-conviction exonerations based on DNA evidence.  That includes capital cases as well as life sentences for sex-related crimes.

http://www.innocenceproject.org/know/

In the case of Ron Williamson and Dennis Fritz, a case from Pontotoc County in the book: "An Innocent Man" by John Grisham, not only were they exonerated, the real suspect was identified by the DNA evidence when it was examined on behalf of these two.

Regardless, there is little doubt there are innocent people sitting on death row as we speak.

[AquaMan]

I saw the number 300 and jumped. My bad.

We pay for these mistakes twice. We pay for years of incarceration at what, $35-50K per year? Then when they are exonerated we pay again for lost potential income, assets etc. Maybe thats why prosecutors are hot for the death penalty. Permanently hides mistakes and costs less.

[sauerkraut]

Why not just use a bullet to the head? it's fast painless and quick. I would favor hanging too. I never was a big fan of drug execution but it's still better thyan having no death penality.  This makes me wonder if someone has been tampering with the execution drugs.

[sauerkraut]

What's the hold-up for the 2nd guy? This is very unfair to the victims family. The death penality needs to be carried out ASAP  as per the juries wishes and for justice. Drum up a firing squad and get the job done, then bring out the next guy from death row and clean out death row- 100 years ago we had the same constitution we do today so why are death penality cases taking longer & longer with more appeals, with DNA testing the cases should be speeding up.

[Townsend]

This must be the most national and international attention OK's gotten since the Murrah building.

It's on every news feed I have.

International leaders with less than stellar human rights policies are talking about the prisoner torture in Oklahoma.

Obama's weighed in that it was bad.  That might get Oklahoma some support from the GOP.

[sauerkraut]

This must be the most national and international attention OK's gotten since the Murrah building.

It's on every news feed I have.

International leaders with less than stellar human rights policies are talking about the prisoner torture in Oklahoma.

Obama's weighed in that it was bad.  That might get Oklahoma some support from the GOP.

Funny how they don't talk about the victims and their families along with the horrific murders he commited. He should have  been executed long ago. When he took a life he gave up his right to live.

[guido911]

Just "how bad" is it? The guy that drones people to death from the sky is critical of Oklahoma's "humane" delivery of the death penalty.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/state/white-house-clayton-lockett-s-execution-fell-short-of-humane/article_a0a29e66-d07a-11e3-8c4d-001a4bcf6878.html

[heironymouspasparagus]

Heir:

Is ANYONE arguing that the sentence was unfair?  Is anyone arguing that he did not commit a horrible crime?  No. 

But the fact is we are better than he is.  Criminals torture people to death on dispicable ways.  Going back to the founding of our country, those condemned to die by the power of the State were executed in as "clean" a manner as was practicle.  Nazis. Saddam Hussein. Arnold west outlaws.

When We the People decide to kill a fellow citizen, we are doing it because we are better than them.  The fact that the condemned is a bad person should be a given.  That does NOT enable us to emulate his behavior, rather it requires us to set ourselves apart.

But not to worry.  These ones are sub human.  As history as taught us, I this perfectly fine to brand some things sub human.  Never leads to a problem.

He was sentenced to die for his crimes.  He has died.  He served his sentence.

I guess in that light, a successful execution,

And if we are gonna argue the "kinder, gentler machine gun hand", then, as I have stated before, a bullet (.30-06) through the head from behind at an unknown random time is by far and away the most humane way to do it.  


Or how about just using whatever a veterinarian uses for euthanizing dogs/cats.  I have had to do that a few times over the decades, and it was always painless and peaceful.

And this whole nonsense about "cruel and unusual" has come about ONLY because of our redefinition of the term.

[Conan71]

I saw the number 300 and jumped. My bad.

We pay for these mistakes twice. We pay for years of incarceration at what, $35-50K per year? Then when they are exonerated we pay again for lost potential income, assets etc. Maybe thats why prosecutors are hot for the death penalty. Permanently hides mistakes and costs less.

I read that general population maximum security (OKDOC's web site) is $75 a day or $27K per year in Oklahoma.  It seems I read somewhere before that Death Row is about double that in Oklahoma, and I don't believe that includes the cost of legal work for all the appeals.  In other states, residence on Death Row is as much as $250K per year (California).  California has over 700 inmates on DR and has executed 13 since re-instating the death penalty.  One statistic put the cost of the death penalty at $300 million per execution in California.  That's kind of a reach, but if you average the total cost of the death penalty program vs. the number executed.  

Thankfully, it appears the trend in the death penalty sentencing has fallen by nearly 2/3 in the last 14 years.  From roughly 260 in 1997 to about 80 last year.

Here's some more stats that should make fiscal conservative's heads explode, it does mine:

For the states which employ the death penalty, this luxury comes at a high price. In Texas, a death penalty case costs taxpayers an average of $2.3 million, about three times the cost of imprisoning someone in a single cell at the highest security level for 40 years.(3) In Florida, each execution is costing the state $3.2 million.(4) In financially strapped California, one report estimated that the state could save $90 million each year by abolishing capital punishment.(5) The New York Department of Correctional Services estimated that implementing the death penalty would cost the state about $118 million annually.(6)

http://www.fnsa.org/v1n1/dieter1.html

[cannon_fodder]

Heir:

You are incorrect.  The 8th Amendment application to the death penalty goes way back to England.  Yes, definitions have changed,.. but a quick death is THE GOAL of an execution.

A death sentenced carried out otherwise is what we call torture.

The Archbishop of Oklahoma puts it well:

[TheArtist]

http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/30/opinion/sutter-oklahoma-botched-execution/index.html?hpt=hp_t4

[heironymouspasparagus]

Heir:

You are incorrect.  The 8th Amendment application to the death penalty goes way back to England.  Yes, definitions have changed,.. but a quick death is THE GOAL of an execution.

A death sentenced carried out otherwise is what we call torture.

The Archbishop of Oklahoma puts it well:

Didn't get the Archbishop quote/link....repost?

When was a quick death a criteria?  Hanging was pretty common for a long time - neither quick nor "neat and orderly".  Not exactly the same as cruel and unusual, as far as I am concerned.  Since the last one I can find info about was 1996, I guess maybe unusual, by default.  Or lack of practice.

I've covered what would be the epitome of a quick death.  Most humane, least suffering, least relative stress involved for the recipient.  No other method has all the advantages and practical implications for all involved.  And it is extremely cost effective....one capital expenditure of about $1,000 and some kind of clamping mechanism to hold it in place, then one bullet at about $1.00 each.  Easy, peasy....



And we don't call waterboarding torture....go figure.  We gotta be one of the most whacked-out society in the history of the planet.

[swake]

And if we are gonna argue the "kinder, gentler machine gun hand", then, as I have stated before, a bullet (.30-06) through the head from behind at an unknown random time is by far and away the most humane way to do it.  


Or how about just using whatever a veterinarian uses for euthanizing dogs/cats.  I have had to do that a few times over the decades, and it was always painless and peaceful.

And this whole nonsense about "cruel and unusual" has come about ONLY because of our redefinition of the term.

Guns and killin' are really important to you, why?

[nathanm]

And we don't call waterboarding torture....go figure.  We gotta be one of the most whacked-out society in the history of the planet.

It's pretty whacked out how many of our bible-thumping fellow citizens have a moral framework that is no better developed than that of the people we execute.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Guns and killin' are really important to you, why?

No, what is important is that we make it as humane and fast as possible to minimize or better yet, eliminate, any suffering or discomfort for the person being executed - keep it from falling into the purview of "cruel and unusual".  That is the only way we can legitimately claim to be a caring/compassionate society with our killing.

The REAL question is why would it not be important to you to reduce their pain and suffering while killing them?    If you think there is a better way - we now know drugs aren't the answer - let's hear it... inquiring minds want to know!!