Iraq Reverts

[Conan71]

I guess I wasn't as clear as I wanted to be...first, I agree with most of what you said - the big difference going to the point of origin of ISIS versus previous radical groups we have encountered.  And maybe I got your comment wrong, but it seemed like you were saying this was a 'new' group, leading to the need for patience and waiting for them to make the first move.  My disagreement is that I don't believe it is a new group.

As for us going all in, I guess I wasn't clear enough about that either - I think that is what is needed, and I think the symbolism of what I am advocating for Thursday is the preferred sequence of events.  I have essentially NO expectation that it will happen any time soon if at all.  I don't think it will ever happen with this regime.  I am not even sure our previous regimes would have done it either (Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush).  Every one of them has been more concerned about what wins the next election than what is the right thing to do.

We lost 2,977 on 9/11.  Just over 2,500 at Pearl Harbor.  We were electrified by both as a nation - but the Pearl Harbor had a more "participative" effect on the country - essentially everyone was involved for 4 years!   We got full "audience participation" over 9/11 for maybe a year or so (?? anyone want to make a case on that, I am open to suggestions), then we went back to yearly acknowledgements and occasional attention when a news article highlighted an event, or return of bodies (even Viet Nam kept your attention with the published lists of KIA/MIA/wounded in the Tulsa World on essentially a daily basis - I watched that closely...had friends end up on those lists).  WWII everyone had "skin in the game".  9/11 - we all went shopping at the mall as the big support of the war effort.  Just one of the unintended consequences of a volunteer military versus a draft system.

Everyone was pretty much behind Iraq and Afghanistan until the '04 election.  Democrats decided they could gain momentum with anti-war rhetoric and candidates flat out denying they supported the WOT.  Power grab, plain and simple.  Many people who marginally follow politics were taken in with memes like: "Bush lied, thousands died".

The main mistake the Bush admin made was not a big enough push-back over the "missing WMD", "war for oil", and "Baby Bush finishing daddy's war" bull crap.

I still say if that had been an in and out one year mission, leaving a security detail behind to keep the lid on groups like ISIS, Bush would have looked brilliant.  Instead, we took on two fronts at once with too many scattered insurgencies to keep up with.  I can play "If I were Bush" as well as anyone: If it were me, I would have tightened the noose on Hussein or simply arranged a good old fashioned coup like Bush Sr. used to arrange.

As far as body counts, that was published daily in the Whirled when Bush was in office.  Might have even been done for a few months after Obama assumed the hot seat.  I don't recall seeing any such thing in five years even though deaths in Afghanistan increased after 2009.  I'm not saying the increase in casualties had anything to do with Obama, just that there was not the constant reminder of the toll. 

If all you are capable of farting out is your usual screed on Baby Bush, don't waste your time, I won't read it.  Post something intelligent like the post I replied to and you have all my respect.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Everyone was pretty much behind Iraq and Afghanistan until the '04 election.  Democrats decided they could gain momentum with anti-war rhetoric and candidates flat out denying they supported the WOT.  Power grab, plain and simple.  Many people who marginally follow politics were taken in with memes like: "Bush lied, thousands died".

The main mistake the Bush admin made was not a big enough push-back over the "missing WMD", "war for oil", and "Baby Bush finishing daddy's war" bull crap.

I still say if that had been an in and out one year mission, leaving a security detail behind to keep the lid on groups like ISIS, Bush would have looked brilliant.  Instead, we took on two fronts at once with too many scattered insurgencies to keep up with.  I can play "If I were Bush" as well as anyone: If it were me, I would have tightened the noose on Hussein or simply arranged a good old fashioned coup like Bush Sr. used to arrange.

As far as body counts, that was published daily in the Whirled when Bush was in office.  Might have even been done for a few months after Obama assumed the hot seat.  I don't recall seeing any such thing in five years even though deaths in Afghanistan increased after 2009.  I'm not saying the increase in casualties had anything to do with Obama, just that there was not the constant reminder of the toll. 

If all you are capable of farting out is your usual screed on Baby Bush, don't waste your time, I won't read it.  Post something intelligent like the post I replied to and you have all my respect.

Everyone was behind Afghanistan.  Most still are - it was the real war...not contrived BS.  By the Bush regime - Bush lied.  Thousands died. 

What Baby Bush actually said was;  That man tried to kill my daddy....
So, yeah, it was trying to finish Daddy's war.  Except that Daddy was more than capable enough of taking care of himself!  And had a brain, too!!  IF there were any justification to take out Hussein, Daddy would have done it.  But he knew better.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/1408573/That-man-tried-to-kill-my-dad-says-Bush.html

As for in/out - still the wrong war.  Still stupid thing to do.


Well, I wouldn't expect you to read anything related to reality....

[guido911]

I guess we are going to war. I wonder if this guy got the Obama memo.

Looks like audit time!

[Gaspar]

I guess we are going to war. I wonder if this guy got the Obama memo.

Looks like audit time!

You mean this is not a sport?  Not an awkward distraction from a perpetual vacation? 

I thought we could just sweep through and degrade ISIS to a manageable level? 

Shouldn't take more than a day or two? 

I'm sure the president will have super strong words, and show genuine concern tomorrow in his speech. 
TELEPROMPTER:
Fellow Americans [make grumpy face]. . .

[Gaspar]

Good thing they upgraded the situation room last week.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Good thing they upgraded the situation room last week.

How the he$$ did you get into my office???   I know none of the alarms went off....

[guido911]

This is unfortunately hilarious.

[Gaspar]

Interesting turn. . .
The White House is NOW calling ISIS a "Core National Security Priority."

It has gone from JV to priority because ISIS, who now controls a region the size of Great Briton, has seized Iraqi and Syrian oil fields and is making hundreds of millions in black market oil sales to fuel their movement.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/08/18/business/al-khatteeb-isis-oil-iraq/
http://abcnews.go.com/International/isis-makes-million-day-selling-oil-analysts/story?id=24814359
http://www.vocativ.com/world/iraq-world/isis-oil/#!bSyVHS

Tonight the president will announce his strategy, and has said that he has war powers to act on ISIS without congress (which he indeed does).

So, if we are going to go to war with ISIS in the name of "National Security," and that has only now become a priority because they have, and continue to acquire oil fields. . .

EXTRA CREDIT (fill in the blank):

The war against ISIS is a war for ___.

[Conan71]

Interesting turn. . .
The White House is NOW calling ISIS a "Core National Security Priority."

It has gone from JV to priority because ISIS, who now controls a region the size of Great Briton, has seized Iraqi and Syrian oil fields and is making hundreds of millions in black market oil sales to fuel their movement.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/08/18/business/al-khatteeb-isis-oil-iraq/
http://abcnews.go.com/International/isis-makes-million-day-selling-oil-analysts/story?id=24814359
http://www.vocativ.com/world/iraq-world/isis-oil/#!bSyVHS

Tonight the president will announce his strategy, and has said that he has war powers to act on ISIS without congress (which he indeed does).

So, if we are going to go to war with ISIS in the name of "National Security," and that has only now become a priority because they have, and continue to acquire oil fields. . .

EXTRA CREDIT (fill in the blank):

The war against ISIS is a war for ___.

Wonder if ISIS has stumbled upon Saddam Hussein's missing WMD cache yet?

And as to the war for oil comment, don't you bet there are some sweet no-bid contracts awaiting Halliburton?

[Gaspar]

Wonder if ISIS has stumbled upon Saddam Hussein's missing WMD cache yet?

And as to the war for oil comment, don't you bet there are some sweet no-bid contracts awaiting Halliburton?

There was a report today about concerns with Obama bombing Syria because of unreported WMD stockpiles.  Assad is losing to ISIS and really needs our help, but it is also very likely that his (and what's left of Hussein's) goodies are hidden in that desert.


The president will have to be very careful on two fronts.  One, not to uncover or release any of Assad's chemical stockpiles that were claimed to have been destroyed, and two, not to uncover or release any of Uncle Saddam's that don't exist.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Saw news report last night that said there is an estimated 7,000 - 10,000 active fighters in ISIS....  wow!  That sure sounds familiar!

[Gaspar]

Saw news report last night that said there is an estimated 7,000 - 10,000 active fighters in ISIS....  wow!  That sure sounds familiar!

Daily Show?

[Gaspar]

Very interesting piece by Matt Welch today.
http://reason.com/blog/2014/09/10/obamas-grotesque-flip-flops-on-congressi

[heironymouspasparagus]

Daily Show?

Naw...one of the "mainstreams"....

[Gaspar]

What?  This has to be a joke.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/10/politics/isis-obama-speech/index.html
The President has asked Congress for the authority to arm and train moderate Syrian rebels to fight ISIS, administration and congressional sources told CNN. Obama is seeking the authority under Title 10 of U.S. Code, which deals with military powers. His request was sent soon after he met with Congressional leadership Tuesday night.

A. Based on things like history, history, and history, this is a very very bad idea.  These are the same rebels that sold Steven Sotloff to ISIS to begin with, and are currently fighting against one of the same enemies as ISIS (the Assad Regime). http://edition.cnn.com/2014/09/09/us/steven-sotloff-killing?sr=tw090914rebelssoldsotlofflocation930avodtopphoto

B. There is a 100% chance these "moderate" rebels will use the weapons and "training" to kill other groups like the Kurds and Yazidis, and ultimately us.

C. There are no "moderate" rebels (like that means something).  There are rebels fighting Assad. Lots of different groups.  They are the same as rebels we have armed in the past like Al Qaeda, and the Talaban, and a host of other wonderful folks.  Someone please define what "moderate" is.  Are these the more laid-back rebels?  The Jihad-light folks?  

D. We will be supplying weapons to them so that they can fight the weapons we supplied to Iraq that ISUS has captured.  They can also use those weapons to fight Assad, essentially serving as a US declaration of war against Assad.  Of course Russia will step up their arming of Assad, and we will have a full-on puppet war.  Eventually we will have to clean this up, but not until we make a really really big mess, and plant the seeds for future wars.


The presidential confidence level has just gone from the 30% range to about -20%.