TCC - downtown surface lots

[Markk]

It's good to see two brand new surface lots going in to the north and the east of TCC downtown.

[DTowner]

In fairness, TCC is just upgrading the surface lots that were already there. 

[DowntownDan]

In fairness, TCC is just upgrading the surface lots that were already there.  

The one to the east had a building a few months ago that was torn down.  They are just now getting around to prettying up the space to one of their trademark parking lots.

[DTowner]

The one to the east had a building a few months ago that was torn down.  They are just now getting around to prettying up the space to one of their trademark parking lots.

As I recall, that building came down a couple of yeas ago and the spot was graveled over for parking.  The fancier paking lots do indicate TCC has no other intentions for the spaces for the near, mid and maybe even long term.  Sad as the lots south of 10th Street are never at capacity.

[RecycleMichael]

Look for my downtown recycling center on the southeast corner of 11th and Cincinnati.

I am trying to use up parking lots one at a time.

[Markk]

In fairness, TCC is just upgrading the surface lots that were already there. 

In fairness, TCC doesn't "upgrade" a surface lot by installing another surface lot.

[DTowner]

In fairness, TCC doesn't "upgrade" a surface lot by installing another surface lot.

I agree TCC sure doesn't improve it's neighborhood by making parking lots into nicer parking lots.  My point was simply that these two lots were already parking lots.  Now they are just nicer albeit more permanent looking parking lots.

[Conan71]

I agree TCC sure doesn't improve it's neighborhood by making parking lots into nicer parking lots.  My point was simply that these two lots were already parking lots.  Now they are just nicer albeit more permanent looking parking lots.

Nothing like fresh, black, hot asphalt in the 98 degree heat.  Does anyone else think that's got to be what Hell smells like?

[TheArtist]

 I do think it helps to add trees and plantings along the sidewalks.  I would like to see more between the college and the heart of downtown to of course link the college area with my shop lol.  Yes, pedestrian friendly buildings would be better of course.  As for the corners and parking lots fronting Boston Ave.  I think I remember hearing that those four corners were to eventually have green space on all of them.  That would not preclude buildings being built behind those green spaces like they did with the newest one on the SW corner.  

Btw, does anyone know where a company looking to move downtown could get pedestrian counts for our downtown? Appears they have auto/ street traffic counts for downtown but that is pretty much irrelevant for retail in a downtown/urban area.  What counts for a business in a downtown/urban area is "sidewalk/pedestrian" counts and I can't seem to find any for downtown Tulsa?  Someone had asked me about it before in a discussion about downtown businesses and I just supposed that the city would have those numbers somewhere.

[Conan71]

I do think it helps to add trees and plantings along the sidewalks.  I would like to see more between the college and the heart of downtown to of course link the college area with my shop lol.  Yes, pedestrian friendly buildings would be better of course.  As for the corners and parking lots fronting Boston Ave.  I think I remember hearing that those four corners were to eventually have green space on all of them.  That would not preclude buildings being built behind those green spaces like they did with the newest one on the SW corner.  

Btw, does anyone know where a company looking to move downtown could get pedestrian counts for our downtown? Appears they have auto/ street traffic counts for downtown but that is pretty much irrelevant for retail in a downtown/urban area.  What counts for a business in a downtown/urban area is "sidewalk/pedestrian" counts and I can't seem to find any for downtown Tulsa?  Someone had asked me about it before in a discussion about downtown businesses and I just supposed that the city would have those numbers somewhere.

I doubt anyone does a pedestrian count, but there should be an average daily population number consisting of workers, residents, and visitors to downtown.  Check with the Metro Chamber, they should know.  Now whether they actually do know is entirely another issue.

As an alternative, property companies usually know what the "daily pops" are for a given area.  Knowing that helps them sell space.  A friend of mine who worked in retail franchising said that was a key metric in helping franchisees select a location, as if it was not a difficult number to come up with.

[TheArtist]

I doubt anyone does a pedestrian count, but there should be an average daily population number consisting of workers, residents, and visitors to downtown.  Check with the Metro Chamber, they should know.  Now whether they actually do know is entirely another issue.

As an alternative, property companies usually know what the "daily pops" are for a given area.  Knowing that helps them sell space.  A friend of mine who worked in retail franchising said that was a key metric in helping franchisees select a location, as if it was not a difficult number to come up with.

Actually, pedestrian counts would be a key metric on where and whether to locate a retail business downtown.  LOTS of cities, both large and small do so and more and more are realizing its importance.  In most european cities it's the be all end all count that matters.  If you have a street that only 600 people go down all day, or a street like I was reading about the other day that had slow traffic then they did some pedestrian friendly upgrades and went up to 60,000 people per day,,, well I know where I would want my shop! lol

And that's the way things can be in an urban environment, one street can be quite busy, the the next street over, dead.  Also, some streets can command higher rents and desirability if they have the right pedestrian counts.  If people in our city are still just looking at population as a metric for downtown retail, omg.   they are still thinking of it as just another suburban type area and this perspective will obviously not allow them to be seeing things in a way that will help them make the correct decisions per a CBD type area or even help businesses make those decisions. A business that is used to locating in urban areas and or wants to locate in an urban area like the CBD will expect to see pedestrian counts.  If you don't have them they may look at you like your crazy or don't know what your doing.

Some bits from some other websites and some other random cities websites.


"With the installation in 2011 of 14 cameras that measure pedestrian volumes 24 hours a day, the CCD now provides retailers, brokers, and developers with detailed counts and analyses of hourly trends.n the following section are links to the monthly reports for the camera locations shown in the map above. These reports detail pedestrian activity broken down by day of the week, time of day, and location. If you would like additional data for any of the identified blocks, please contact the retail liason at retail@centercityphila.org."

"Pedestrians are not only an indisputable fact, but a vitalizing force in the activity of traffic-generating centers of the city. This is particularly so in the CBD.
Land Use and Availability of Pedestrian Routes. Land use and the availability of pedestrian routes act as constraints upon the distances people must walk and the paths they choose within the downtown area. Land use in the CBD may be considered as a network of pedestrian traffic generators separated by varying distances. Where related land uses are far apart, the effect may be to discourage walking between them. In the case of retail operations, which rely directly on pedestrian traffic for business, the distance between stores has vital economic ramifications.

A recent survey of pedestrian habits in Washington, D.C., for example, revealed that there was greater mutual exchange of pedestrians between stores in a large retailing concentration than in a dispersed retail area.10 And a background study for Cleveland's downtown plan noted that the separation of the two major shopping store concentrations created intervening pedestrian dead spots where nonretail functions failed to channel large numbers of shoppers-on-foot.11 It was precisely this relation between pedestrian movement and land use which, among other things, researchers on Buffalo's CBD grasped in recommending a redevelopment project which would induce pedestrian movement through the heart of the retail area and encourage walking on both sides of the main shopping street.12

The pedestrian count has a wide variety of other applications. Not directly germane to pedestrian planning itself, they are mentioned here briefly. The count may be used to:

a. Select retail store locations on the basis of pedestrian movement past prospective locations.15

b. Select locations for public buildings such as libraries so that they are accessible to the centers of CBD pedestrian movement.

c. Determine downtown retail property values on the basis of pedestrian traffic volumes.

Portland

"As part of our commitment to the vitality of the urban core, the Clean & Safe District. The Clean & Safe District conducts biannual pedestrian traffic counts. The purpose of the counts is to track pedestrian traffic volumes in front of key intersections within the downtown core, available retail space and parcels poised for redevelopment."



Denver
"Since 1994, the Downtown Denver Business Improvement District (BID) has funded two pedestrian counts in
Downtown Denver each year. The BID conducts a comprehensive count in the summer and a partial count in
the winter. This report summarizes data collected during the summer of 2012.
Pedestrian counts allow Downtown Denver stakeholders to:
 Measure pedestrian traffic for prospective Downtown Denver retailers, developers and businesses.
 Determine the impact of new development."

Raleigh
The Downtown Raleigh Alliance (DRA) commissioned this study of
pedestrian activity in key downtown corridors as a means of furthering
the downtown's economic development goals.Economically, the
count data will support local efforts to attract new and expanded retail,
restaurants, and commercial occupants, each of which bears a unique
relationship to pedestrian activity in terms of peak periods of activity,
location, and visibility.
This pedestrian count also contributes to the broader vision of promoting
downtown Raleigh as a regional center of commerce, tourism, and
livability. Walkable streetscapes are a cornerstone of a thriving downtown
and a growing urban economy.

[Markk]

I do think it helps to add trees and plantings along the sidewalks.  I would like to see more between the college and the heart of downtown to of course link the college area with my shop lol.  Yes, pedestrian friendly buildings would be better of course.  As for the corners and parking lots fronting Boston Ave.  I think I remember hearing that those four corners were to eventually have green space on all of them.  That would not preclude buildings being built behind those green spaces like they did with the newest one on the SW corner.  

Btw, does anyone know where a company looking to move downtown could get pedestrian counts for our downtown? Appears they have auto/ street traffic counts for downtown but that is pretty much irrelevant for retail in a downtown/urban area.  What counts for a business in a downtown/urban area is "sidewalk/pedestrian" counts and I can't seem to find any for downtown Tulsa?  Someone had asked me about it before in a discussion about downtown businesses and I just supposed that the city would have those numbers somewhere.

I won't stand by while my thread gets hijacked. I simply won't.

[heironymouspasparagus]

I do think it helps to add trees and plantings along the sidewalks.  I would like to see more between the college and the heart of downtown to of course link the college area with my shop lol.  Yes, pedestrian friendly buildings would be better of course.  As for the corners and parking lots fronting Boston Ave.  I think I remember hearing that those four corners were to eventually have green space on all of them.  That would not preclude buildings being built behind those green spaces like they did with the newest one on the SW corner.  

Btw, does anyone know where a company looking to move downtown could get pedestrian counts for our downtown? Appears they have auto/ street traffic counts for downtown but that is pretty much irrelevant for retail in a downtown/urban area.  What counts for a business in a downtown/urban area is "sidewalk/pedestrian" counts and I can't seem to find any for downtown Tulsa?  Someone had asked me about it before in a discussion about downtown businesses and I just supposed that the city would have those numbers somewhere.

Trees are great - we need more of them.  The problem comes due to the way they are planted with no space around where a root ball should be developing.  They get no rain in most cases, and will not thrive IF they do survive.  Depending on the tree, they should have a 30 to 40 ft circle of grass space per tree - open with NO concrete covering.  That's 3 cars worth of space....

[dbacksfan 2.0]

I won't stand by while my thread gets hijacked. I simply won't.

In all fairness, you started a discussion about surface parking in and around TCC Downtown. There are members here that have very good thoughts and opinions on how parking in and around downtown should be handled. Some of these members are directly involved, and partially involved in the development of the area, and there are a lot of opinions of how parking should be handled.

You started the thread about surface parking around TCC, and this site is a discussion and debate about issues involving Tulsa in general. If you were concerned about "thread hijacking" this is not the site for that. This site is for discussion, debate, and at times argumentative discussion, and this is what makes this a great site. There are people here that have a vested interest in Tulsa, without being direct involved in the politics.

No one has "hijacked" your thread. It's being discussed and debated, plain and simple.

[TheArtist]

In all fairness, you started a discussion about surface parking in and around TCC Downtown. There are members here that have very good thoughts and opinions on how parking in and around downtown should be handled. Some of these members are directly involved, and partially involved in the development of the area, and there are a lot of opinions of how parking should be handled.

You started the thread about surface parking around TCC, and this site is a discussion and debate about issues involving Tulsa in general. If you were concerned about "thread hijacking" this is not the site for that. This site is for discussion, debate, and at times argumentative discussion, and this is what makes this a great site. There are people here that have a vested interest in Tulsa, without being direct involved in the politics.

No one has "hijacked" your thread. It's being discussed and debated, plain and simple.

I think he was being facetious, but indeed, I think parking lots, trees and sidewalk counts can all be tied together in this discussion.