Simon Outlet Mall 61st & Hwy 75

[Hoss]

Would the tax revenue from the Turkey Mountain development or the other Tulsa offered place have gone to Tulsa schools?  From what I gather the Tulsa Hills development goes to Jenks Schools.  Union gets the Woodland Hills areas tax income.  We could indeed use some Tulsa retail development for Tulsa's schools.  What do we have now, the Promenade area?  

Another reason to shop downtown and DECOPOLIS if you ask me! Not that I am biased or anything.  

Property tax would have given that is disbursed based on school district.  Sales tax is based on city limits/county limits.  So, property tax to Tulsa (as it was on the very southern boundary of the TPS district at 61st).  The new location is obviously Jenks for property and sales tax.

[rdj]

The retail sales tax collection does not go to the school systems under the current tax code.  The school systems receive a portion of the ad valorem (property) tax.  They use their ad valorem tax base to determine their bonding capacity which allows for capital improvements and textbooks (and a few others such as buses) but no operating costs such as salaries.  TIF Districts freeze property valuations which affects the assessment and the tax base.  This is why school boards have to approve TIF Districts.

This is a long winded way of saying TPS would have received a bump from Simon locating to 61st & HWY 75, but not for many years as the TIF would have frozen the value.  The River District in Jenks is already in a TIF district so it's already frozen and JPS won't have any say in this new development.

As an aside, moving all of this land into non-profit land is a blow to TPS.  If this land were to ever be developed it would be property tax dollars that could go into improving the facilities of TPS.

[cannon_fodder]

By that logic any and all land ever moved into nonprofit hands is a blow to TPS. Philbrook. The Rose Garden. The hospitals. Let alone all the churches...

[TheArtist]

Ah, I knew that on the one hand, but guess I have gotten some things mixed up in my mind.  I hear things like Union gets so much money because of the mall etc. and forget that its not the sales tax its the property tax, the value of the property.  Which I suppose if you have a store in an area that has high sales volume, it would likely command a higher property value.

[rdj]

By that logic any and all land ever moved into nonprofit hands is a blow to TPS. Philbrook. The Rose Garden. The hospitals. Let alone all the churches...

Hence why Broken Arrow makes it hard on churches to expand...and why Jenks put restrictions in deeds that the landowners have to produce sales tax.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Hence why Broken Arrow makes it hard on churches to expand...and why Jenks put restrictions in deeds that the landowners have to produce sales tax.

What??   Oh...I get it...you're kidding, right??


Lol...Broken Arrow...hard for churches to expand...lol.  Well played, rdj....!!

[rdj]

What??   Oh...I get it...you're kidding, right??


Lol...Broken Arrow...hard for churches to expand...lol.  Well played, rdj....!!

Actually, no that wasn't a joke.  I know of three congregations that had great issues with the City of Broken Arrow in obtaining permits.  Two were specifically told it was because they are a church that doesn't generate tax revenue.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Actually, no that wasn't a joke.  I know of three congregations that had great issues with the City of Broken Arrow in obtaining permits.  Two were specifically told it was because they are a church that doesn't generate tax revenue.

Must be because First Baptist and Rhema have such a choke hold on that town.  They don't want the competition.

[Hoss]

Actually, no that wasn't a joke.  I know of three congregations that had great issues with the City of Broken Arrow in obtaining permits.  Two were specifically told it was because they are a church that doesn't generate tax revenue.

As an electrical engineer, my brother told crazy tales of having to deal with Broken Arrow.

[heironymouspasparagus]

As an electrical engineer, my brother told crazy tales of having to deal with Broken Arrow.

When you realize you are actually dealing with First Baptist and Rhema, everything is fine.

[Conan71]

The "job gettinist" mayor is at it again.  How big a facepalm can I get here? 

I had to check back with the mayor on this one.

Because here is what he said Thursday morning during a discussion with city councilors about whether River Parks should receive $5.6 million in Vision 2025 renewal funds to buy and preserve land on Turkey Mountain:

"My suggestion ... would be that certain portions of the land in the area be set aside for purposes that would generate sales tax for the city of Tulsa. In other words, right on top of Turkey Mountain have an area set aside for a restaurant, beautiful views of the city, a place for people when they go walking, they could go see it. ...

"The community, the taxpayers, not all are interested in walking through the woods at Turkey Mountain, but they will be very interested in going up to a restaurant or going up to a facility where they could sit and watch, look, experience nature, whatever that might be."

The mayor prefaced his remarks by saying that efforts to put together a deal to purchase and preserve private property on and around Turkey Mountain have yet to yield results and that the city of Tulsa shouldn't assume they will.

Until the city knows whether those discussions will bear any fruit, Bartlett said, it should hold off on allocating Vision funds for buying land near Turkey mountain and work to identify property it does own for potential commercial development.

This will obviously get some people's blood boiling, which is why I put a call in to the Mayor's Office. Jarred Brejcha, the mayor's chief of staff, called me back.

His main point: the mayor is not hell-bent on building a restaurant on Turkey Mountain.

Bartlett does, however, believe it would serve the city well to keep open the possibility of commercial development in the area, Brejcha said.

"The same process that River Parks went through to get the Blue Rose, that is a very good example," Brejcha said.

The Blue Rose Cafe, built along the Arkansas River at approximately 19th Street and Riverside Drive, was proposed in response to a request for proposals from River Parks Authority.

Even if Turkey Mountain and the surrounding area are preserved, funds will be needed to maintain the area and provide programing, Brejcha said.

That's where sales tax collections from restaurant or other commercial venue could help defray costs and provide a place to rest or something to eat.

"It could really be something that complements the area," Brejcha said.

River Parks has asked the council to consider allocating $5.6 million from the Vision 2025 sales tax renewal to expand Turkey Mountain's footprint.

River Parks' intent, according to a handout provided to city councilors, is to acquire enough land to "secure contiguous recreational properties from the (Arkansas) river to Highway 75, north of 61st Street."

That would include the 52-plus acres on the northeast corner of 61st Street and Highway 75 where Simon Properties' Premium Outlet Mall was to have been built, River Parks Executive Director Matt Meyer told councilors.

This outline of River Park's request for $5.6 million in Vision 2025 renewal funds was presented to city councilors earlier this month.

Councilor Phil Lakin expressed strong support for keeping Turkey Mountain a wilderness area.

Councilor Blake Ewing called Bartlett's proposal a "land mine waiting to happen" and cautioned councilors that they must be clear with voters about how land purchased with Vision funds would be used.

Bartlett made his remarks during a four-hour-plus meeting with city councilors held to determine what economic-development projects should be included in the Vision renewal.

https://www.readfrontier.com/during-vision-2025-renewal-talks-bartlett-suggests-putting-a-restaurant-on-turkey-mountain/

[cannon_fodder]

Just started a thread on that specific topic Conan!

http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=21185.0;topicseen

[Tulsasaurus Rex]

https://www.readfrontier.com/jenks-receives-outlet-mall-plans-construction-expected-to-begin-in-the-spring/

Bell said Jenks made sense as a location for the outlet mall because the city has a Riverfront Entertainment District..."That is what that site called out for, this kind of use," Bell said. "It fits perfectly.

hahahahahahahaha

[Conan71]

Good for them, I hope they enjoy their auto-centric development.  I'm sure it will look just smashing in 15 years when it sits there 1/2 vacant and Simon is lobbying for tax abatements.

[SXSW]

At least they are leaving the riverfront piece for (hopefully) something better in the future, but the site plan ensures it will have no connectivity to it